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New Life

Discussion in 'Planescape: Torment (Classic)' started by Enagonios, Sep 3, 2006.

  1. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
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    Ok, I only played it once the first time (around 6 months ago) so I've decided that although I still remember everything, it's not fresh anymore and time for a new life! also, i missed a lot of stuff the first time around, nordom, vhailor and both mazes! :eek:

    Anyone else playing it right now? I'm playing with these starting stats:

    str 12
    dex 9
    con 9
    int 15
    wis 16
    cha 13

    I'm following the fighter6/mage7/fighter9/magex and whatever thief levels i can get by just doing training.

    right now i've got a fighter6/mage5 and have done every area in the hive except ragpicker's square and the alley of dangerous angles and my current stats are:

    str 14
    con 9
    dex 9
    int 16
    wis 19
    cha 13

    based on the char i'm planning to play, how should i start allocating the rest of my stat points at level-up? i'd keep pumping them into int and wis, but because of all the possible stat increases in the game i'd just end up wasting some extra points.
     
  2. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

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    If you plan on being a Mage for most of the game then don't put anything more into INT, as you can get the great Mage tatoo that gives +3 to INT, and anything higher than 19 is overkill. For WIS, you could always get the +2 tatoo and let the quest rewards take you all the way to 25. Putting anything in CHA is kind of redundent because of Friends. Therefore I'd advise spreading the level-up points between the physical stats.
     
  3. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    I'd increase wis by 1 next and only con afterwards.
     
  4. raptor Gems: 16/31
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    Since your first going for powergaming this (Asking for advise on stat upgrades, thats a first), you have already botchered it as you should have started with 18 strength, 18 wisdom and anything left in constitution and gonne pure fighter :p (and then increased wisdom and constitution to 25 as fast as posible since level 7 fighter gives +1 strength that bypasses exeptional strength anyways ;) ).

    But yeah i know, everyone keep thinking the mages are so powerfull... (well, they are not, try a pure fighter and see what i mean).
     
  5. Ziad

    Ziad I speak in rebuses Veteran

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    Already tried a pure fighter, and the fighter/mage hybrid I ran next was more powerful. Differences of opinion :)
     
  6. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
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    okay, i'm about to enter the dead nations and am already fighter6/mage7 and am now on my 7th fighter level. going to take it to 9 then go back to mage for good (with exceptions of fighter and thief training quests).

    so i should only start increasing con now? not strength?
     
  7. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
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    Potential spoilers below:
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    Unfortunately, Torment has an unusual advancement structure that encourages you to game the system (essentially be a "powergamer").

    WIS increases your ability to get all those cool recalled memories, but it also gives you a bonus to any XP you earn. Bonus XP = faster leveling. Faster leveling = higher stat points quicker.

    From both a role-play and a powergamer perspective, it makes sense to go after 25 WIS immediately.

    CON is something of a throwaway stat in Torment, since combat isn't that important, and even in an unmodded game, you can keep saving and reloading until you get 8-10 HP as a fighter. You really only start to see serious returns on CON when you break into the 20s and start getting regeneration...but that's basically all you get, whereas with INT or WIS, you'll actually unlock new dialogue options and memories. In the meantime, hide behind Morte if you're taking a beating.

    Finally, CHA is practically a dump stat in Torment that does very little for you in the grand scheme of things. If you're playing a character with any MU levels, it's completely worthless, since you can use multiple castings of Friends to get 18+ CHA easily (up to and including CHA 25).

    You may be aware that the game grants two "specialization" bonuses (bonus stats and other misc bonuses) if you stay the same character class all the way through, I think it was level 7 and 12. It sounds like you've hosed yourself on that front, though.

    If I were you, I'd go after WIS next, and for a while.
     
  8. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Going after a 25 wisdom early on is a waste. You will have several opportunities to increase your wisdom later in the game (a total of seven quest related points in wis if you play your cards right). Depending on how many you already received (which should only be one) -- you should be hitting 25 by the end of the game without adding any more.

    You need a 18 int to unlock the final circle. Sure the +3 int tattoo is there (although I think you need to be 12th level), but there are better tattoos. You'll get +2 int and +1 wis for 12th level mage. You should be at 17 now -- get the +1 tattoo or put a point here and upgrade Dak'kon. You can wait to put more here.

    Since you can't die, why do you need a high con? Con is the last thing I upgrade. Dex is important if you wish to also get thieving levels (an easy way to get more hit points if you want them -- 1 hit point per level). I always find it better to not get hit. Build dex before con.

    Friends is great, but a pain to continue casting for every encounter. I'd recommend a cha of at least 16 by the time you get to Ravel. You should be able to get three quest related points. Higher is better.

    Hence (in order):
    1 point in int
    2 points in cha
    build up dex to 18
    build up con to 18
    build up str to 18

    [ September 06, 2006, 16:30: Message edited by: T2Bruno ]
     
  9. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    I didagree with T2Bruno.
    Don't increase int, you already have at least 17 and you can buy the mage tattoo in order to get 18. More doesn't help before the final.

    When you meet Ravel you should already have gathered an additional +3 cha bonus and reached 16. So there's no need to increase it even further.

    Raising dex isn't worth it, the next 5 points won't help and for the next ones you just get +1 AC per point spent. I wouldn't raise it.
    Con is more useful. For each additional point in con you need 5 seconds less to regenerate a HP. Soon it will be high enough to get an additional HP bonus and when the value gets higher you regenerate several HP per round.

    18 str is nice, you just need one +1 str tattoo in order to raise it to 19, but with Dakkon's strength spell and your luck bonus for high wis you can reach the same effect easily.
    And you didn't choose a mage in order to emphasize melee.

    It's very easy to reach 25 in all stats by gaining fighting XP if you want to to have perfect stats.
     
  10. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
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    Going after 25 WIS early on is absolutely not a waste. In fact, it's the best time to get it, since you'll be getting more bonus XP throughout the entire game. Waiting until later on in the game before even starting to work on your WIS means you'll miss out on a ton of bonus XP before you get there. You will also be that much slower to level and gain additional stat points for INT, DEX, etc.
     
  11. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    ... and that's why I REALLY enjoy this game. There is no wrong way to play it -- different playing methods, even different decisions during the game, make the game a unique experience.

    Everyone disagrees about what is best because there is no best decision. Just a whole lot of equally good decisions (there are a few really bad decisions you could make in the game, but those are kind of obvious).
     
  12. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    You don't need natural 25 wis, there are tattoos.
     
  13. Killjoy Gems: 8/31
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    There are only 3 tattoo slots on Nameless One's body that you can use for stats other than WIS once you get a natural 25.
     
  14. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    You can, but it's not worth getting natural 25 as soon as possible.

    You can buy a +2 wis tattoo.
    It's better to stop raising wis at 23 and spend the next 2 points in another stat.
    It doesn't matter for example if you have 23 wis, 14 cha and wear the +2 wis tattoo or 25 wis, 12 cha and wear the +2 cha tattoo.
    But after the next two wis raises the second choice will have 2 extra stat points.

    There are not many tattoos which are more useful than 2 stat points. And most good tattoos only work for one class.
    The wis tattoos are also useless for Dak'kon, but others like the +2 strength tattoo aren't.

    Not wearing the +2 wis tattoo and gaining natural 25 wis is only worth considering if you play a thief and want to wear the thief tattoos for extra XP.
     
  15. raptor Gems: 16/31
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    Always fun these treads. People use the fighter levels only to build up some hitpoints for their "spellcasters". Everytime i have played i have gonne mostly after mage as well becose its more fun to play (imho) so one time i tried a pure fighter. and soloed him to level 20 in less than a day. He beat up those gelugeons (or whatever those greater demons was called) in undersigil alone with no problems at all. Even my mages at levels ranging from 20-30 with several other classes mixed in have never even been close. He also killed the monster in mere secconds, and regenerated any damage he had gotten about 10 secconds later.

    In short, i have loved playing magic minded Nameless ones, but have yet to find a way to play mage that makes him anywhere as efficient as a fighter. Also becose the game is not like BG2 where monsters of this and that require this and that to beat. Give NO a +1 weapon and he can kill anything in the game.

    Regarding stats, i started with Str18, Wis 18, and whatever was left in Constitution. got wisdom to 23 (+ tatoo) and then focused on constitution. Get it high enough and most enemies can not kill you. I could stand still in front of the "many-as-one" and not attack any rat etc, and he just could not kill me. i regenerated to fast.

    And i would say Dexterity is for fighters and mages much more useless than constitution. You never get good/high armor in the game anyways, the only armor boosting items worth mentioning is Mage only, and still wont give you much more help than a chainmail etc. Constitution gives you HP and regeneration, which is your seccond for of protection since you will have a poor Armor.
     
  16. Enagonios Gems: 31/31
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    hrmph. going to finish this as fighter9/magex but i may do a run0through as a pure fighter right after, just to see what it's like.

    i mean, it must suck having to go through the game stupid and recieve no memories and stuff.
     
  17. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    Being a weakling who has to hide behind his companions or run away from fights sucks even more.
    As weakling you'll die more often and bring even more suffering to innocents, increasing your guilt.
     
  18. raptor Gems: 16/31
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    Trust me when i say the fighter game was not very enjoyable at all. I focused so much on strength/constitution/wisdom just to be superior in close combat. that when i reached the part where i can go to ravels maze, my character (with hes brilliant inteligence of 9) was simply to dumb to continue :p

    Technically this is not aproblem since you can just go around maim a few gelugeons and lava worms in undersigil to level up a few times and get some more inteligence.

    Also becose you have high wisdom you dont loose out on as much as you would think. you usually just get alittle bit less conversation options. aprox half teh memories is stirred by wisdom anyways.

    You can also do this by focusing mostly on doing a few single quests just to get to undersigil and upgrade a bit more inteligence later and then do the greater part of the quests etc. Though, personally i think that would be boring :)

    If you want a challenge, try play as pure a thief as posible (no or very few fighter levels, and try to get both specialisations in thief). its really difficult.
     
  19. kmonster Gems: 24/31
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    Playing as thief shouldn't be too hard. When Undersigil was too hard for my party I had Annah use her thief skills (hide-backstab-run-hide) to get the dungeaon cleared without running out of healing spells.
    Thieves also level much faster than other classes, gaining more stat points and HP than any other class. They also gain XP raising tattoos and a luck bonus.
    It's probably better than the standard suggestion. (weakling mage hiding behind Morte)

    You don't need Undersigil for levelling fast, you can also kill Abiashis running around the streets or use the Modron Cube.

    What was the real reason you aborted playing with your fighter ? Low int doesn't change much. Did the game become too easy because you pumped up more useful stats ? Or were you afraid someone could laugh at you because of your 9 int character ? :lol:
     
  20. Dangerface Gems: 1/31
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    As an addendum to kmonster's above post, if you want to level exceedingly quickly, and reach levels of power that make the game almost stupidly easy in the end, choose to do a solo thief.

    Completely ignore NPCs and go it all alone.

    By the time you finish the game, you'll have 25's in all of your stats except two, and one of those two will likely be at least 18.

    Of course, the NPCs of this game are wonderfully made, so it drastically changes the feeling of the game, and in a literary manner, it diminishes the game. However I do recommend trying a solo-thief in PS:T to anyone who hasn't, its certainly enjoyable and different.
     
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