Most useless NPCs.

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The most useless title really depends on the main character's class. But I think Skie takes the lead all things considered: her stats are okay, her proficiencies leave something to be desired, but the kicker for me is she MUST have Eldoth with her.

Kivan: 17 is still a very good dexterity. It may not be what powergamers would have, but it's certainly above average in the D&D world (his name isn't Minmax). I've never had a problem with him.

 

Well, one thing Faldorn gives you is access to 5th level spells druid - Granted, not many, and iron skin is edit NOT /edit available in BG1, but still, having a couple of extra healing spells never hurt. I'm also inclined to believe that she will have the most healing spells of any character (I'm assuming you give her the Ring of Holiness) barring making your own druid with a higher wisdom score.

Indeed. The difference between 17 and 18, 19 or 20 really isn't that much. Your AC will be better by one point, and you will get up to +2 better to hit. It should also be pointed out that characters like Coran and Kagain have higher attribute scores than should be possible, as they have 20s where 19s should be the highest for their race. (Although since you could make a character with a 20 in either constitution or dexterity through use of tomes, I suppose you could justify it.)

That's just... odd. A dart has base damage of 1d3 and has no extra damage modifications, and a bolt has a base damage of 1d4, while arrows have base damage of 1d6. The heavy crossbow of accuracy I think only gives a +2 modifier to damage, which would be equalled or exceeded by the Long Bow of Marksmanship or the Composite Bow +1. Attacking more often and for more damage should yield more damage. And you'd think even if you factor in darts of wounding or bolts of biting, that the arrows of biting would easily keep up (and are more easily obtained).

[ August 23, 2006, 20:25: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

Faldorn has access to two 5th level spells, Animal Summoning 2 and Cure Critical Wounds. I have never seen Iron Skin in my copy of standard game.

A bolt has a base damage of 1d8.

Long Bow of Marksmanship is THACO:+3, Damage:+2 and Composite Bow +1 is THACO:+2, Damage:+3. Light crossbow of speed: THACO:+1 bonus,Damage:+1 (missile) and crossbow of accuracy: THACO:+5, Damage:+2 (missile). Monty's THACO can be as good as Kivan's where bow vs. crossbow is concerned and bolts have the edge on damage (1d6 for arrow vs. 1d8 for bolt).

As far as I know elves receive a +1 with bows&swords and halfling receive a +1 with missle weapons. Both are specialized with thier weapons and the crossbow of speed shoots as fast as a longbow. I never had trouble finding ammo for Monty in any game. Look, the math is on Kivan's side to a degree. But when you get right down to it the small edge Kivan is capible of having in the archery department is not enough to recommend him over Montaron. When you factor in backstabbing and a decent melee presents along with monty's skill with missle weapons I consider him far supior to Kivan and the fact that Coran, Khalid, and Shar-Teel all are just as good at missle warfare as Kivan and are generaly better at melee than Kivan, he is never #1 on my list.

His bad luck in getting the $#!t kicked out of him is a reason for complaint to me.

 

I really meant to say that Iron Skin is NOT available in BG1. My bad.

I will have to recheck when I get the chance, but the 1d8 thing for a regular unenchanted bolt seems like it can't possibly be correct.

 

You have my word on it, what more could you possibly need?

 

Bolt damage-
PnP: 1d4
BG: 1d8

Now that you've brought it up, I think I'll add this to my PnP fixes mod. Then Monty will be horrible! Mwahahahaha!

Halflings get +1 to slings only, and even that isn't implemented.

Right, so because he's better, you wouldn't recommend him. Glad we got that settled. The simple point of my arguments is that Kivan does not belong on a worthless NPCs list. He can be perhaps not as good for some people, but utterly worthless? Not a chance. Even Tiax, as typically use-challenged as most find him, can be a pretty good tank with the GoOP. So Kivan, as one of the best archers in my experience, whom you've already admitted can have an edge in archery (contradicting your previous assertion ), ... well, it's just not right.

 

I think most of us would agree that Eldoth, Skie, Xan, and the gnomes are all pretty crappy and not worth putting into a party for sheer power purposes. Also, Garrick and Faldorn are pretty mediocre to bad.

I don't get the dislike for Ajantis, who is a very solid tank, all things considered, and the low-level cleric spells are actually useful in the context of BG. He's a very good frontliner for a good/neutral party.

I have to grudgingly admit that Kivan is a very solid NPC character from both a power and flexibility standpoint. No, he doesn't have Coran's 20 DEX (or Coran's ability to specialize past **), or Coran's thieving skills, but he's strong enough to use a composite bow (which Coran isn't), has good tank stats and doubles quite well as a tank, and his 17 DEX makes him a decent archer. I think my main issue with Kivan is that Rob Paulsen is at his best as a lighthearted joker character (though he did a surprisingly good job as an annoying character in Anomen). He just doesn't work playing an overly serious guy.

In terms of sheer power in the context of original BG, Coran beats out Kivan, but if you have a good- or neutral-aligned party, and you're not too particular, why choose? Take both.

I think what we need is a thread on underrated / surprisingly good NPCs, which we haven't had in the last, oh, 7 minutes or so, since there are some surprisingly good NPCs that don't seem all that popular.

 

Hmm I believe Eldoth can be a good addition to a party if you really want him ...

 

Not quite, I only concied that statisticly he is better. my point is that he should be able to thoroughly best Montaron but instead he struggles to get an edge on him. So since monty deals more damage, more often for me he is the best choice.

The fact that Coran, Khalid, Minsc, and Shar-Teel all are just as good at missle warfare as Kivan and are generaly better at melee than Kivan makes him useless for what he is made for to me. and as I said at the top in my opening post

So it isn't "who is most useless to you and vigorously defend your pick" it is more of a who pisses you off, why sort of thing. I know that many people (and obviosly you) play Kivan with great success, I am not one of those people. Maybe it's because I'm a tool, or maybe it's because I only have one eye or maybe it's because I don't bathe regularly but whatever the reason, Kivan is useless to me. and I'll smile when I say that just so you know were still friends

 

I feel that both Eldoth and Garrick have their uses. With magic not nearly as powerful in BG1 as it is in BG2, if you have a bard you can avoid taking a mage. Many of the most useful spells in BG1 are available in wand form, and, as such, available to the bard. The ones you can't get in wand form you have the bard memorize. In regards to combat, a bard is far more versatile than mage, and so you can actually contribute, even if you are out of spells.

 

Yes, vanilla bards do benefit from magic being less powerful and wands being more powerful in BG1 (especially if you recharge them by selling and buying back), it's just that BG1's NPC bards aren't very good. Garrick especially.

A CHARNAME bard is one of the most powerful and versatile solo characters in the game, provided you get the best gear and wands.

 

I always take along a bard. Garrick is in my current party as he is in all of my good/neutral aligned parties provide charname isn't a bard. Eldoth comes along when I'm playing an evil party. For some strange reason, whenever I take along Eldoth, so bizarre, unforeseen "accident" always befalls Skie.

 

when I first started playing BG1, way back, I hated Garrick with a passion. He was weak on hit points, low on his bard stats, and I had a hard time working out the balance of armor and spell casting with him. But latter on, when I got tired of always taking the same party, I started putting more effort in to making any NPC I chose to play a viable party asset. when I started making use of scolls, (which can be cast in armor), and wands his usefulness became clear. And then with TotSC he was able to reach level 10 he became awesome. He levels up slightly faster than a mage, reaches a higher level than a mage, has more hit points and can wear armor. these things add up to being a very useful and powerful NPC. give him the crossbow of speed or a decent longbow and a halberd or sword with +2 chainmail and bracers ac. 6 and he is set.