1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Morality In Warfare

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by NonSequitur, Nov 12, 2004.

Page 6 of 6
  1. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,776
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    Remove all ads!
    I don't know if I can agree with the "tossing the rulebook out whenever it's expedient" thing.

    It that were true why wouldn't the US have used tactical nucs. No US soldier would have died, the war would definitely be over and the tactical nucs would have been detonated in high population areas away from the oil (after all most of the world believes this was about the oil anyway). To repeat the cold war phrase: Nuc 'em 'till they glow and shoot 'em in the dark.

    There are some rules that no sane person is willing to break. And there are many rules that no reasonable person could ever believe are optional. Unfortunately, we do have a small percentage -- I will stress that, a small percentage -- of individuals in the military with questionable ethics (at the same percentages that exist throughout society). But given the sheer number of soldiers in Iraq, that small percentage (even if it's only 0.1%) is a significant number.
     
    T2Bruno, Nov 18, 2004
    #101

  2. AMaster Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,495
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    50
    Using nukes in this situtation wouldn't have been expedient. We're talking expedient both militarily and politically. Using nukes, of any yield, would cause more than just a little backlash, both at home and abroad. Impeachment, anyone?

    Would the use of a nuke against a city be one of those rules? Because it's been done. Twice. Or perhaps dropping incendiary munitions on densely populated, highly flammable cities? That's been done too. Sane people have commited all manner of atrocities throughout recorded history, and will likely continue to do so. Human nature is what it is, and it's repulsive
     
    AMaster, Nov 18, 2004
    #102
  3. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,776
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    And hence the Geneva Convention and the requirement for morality in warfare. Thank you, A-master, you capped my point nicely (although some may think I paid you to say that...).
     
    T2Bruno, Nov 19, 2004
    #103
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,653
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    570
    Gender:
    Male
    Though when a country puts itself on a pedestal claiming higher moral ground than the enemy they are fighting, it is easy for it to start believing that they don't need to follow any rules either. The ENEMY doesn't, so why should we? The inherent flaw of this logic combined with the false air of moral superiority never occurs to the people who say that the Geneva Convention

    (I used Darkwolf's quote from another post because it's a great illustration of the American mindset I'm referring to.)

    The moment you say something like that you lose every inch of the imagined higher moral ground, as well as any justification for the US army to be in Iraq. Sorry, but you can't have both moral superiority and not follow any rules but those you feel like obeying at the time.
     
    Taluntain, Nov 19, 2004
    #104

  5. AMaster Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,495
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    50
    So I've been pondering my response for a few days now, and all I can say is....

    I were pwnt.
     
    AMaster, Nov 22, 2004
    #105
  6. Arahar

    Arahar Hmm, it's a dwarf. Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    681
    Likes Received:
    5
    On the topic of tear gas. It would be ineffective. 1 out of every 5 people is immune to the effects(me included).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2012
    Arahar, Nov 23, 2004
    #106
  7. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    6,117
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    121
    There are people who are immune to tear gas?! Hmm, no offence but do you have something to back that statement up with?
     
    joacqin, Nov 23, 2004
    #107
  8. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    I suppose it's possible for people to be immune to tear gas, although I have to admit that 1 in 5 (that's 20%) seems like an extremely high number. Then again, tear gas was often used in crowd control measures, and if you're able to effectively disperse 80% of the crowd, it makes controlling the remainder so much easier.
     
    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Nov 23, 2004
    #108
  9. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    Messages:
    9,776
    Media:
    15
    Likes Received:
    440
    Gender:
    Male
    Tear gas has differing effects on people. For some it is only a mild irritant, for others it is completely debilitating. I've seen both extremes. I could at least breath in a tear gas chamber, but my eyes involuntarily snapped shut -- I was not able to open them until out in fresh air.

    I think 1 in 5 is more toward "minimally affected" (meaning they can still function with mild discomfort) as opposed to completely immune.
     
    T2Bruno, Nov 23, 2004
    #109
Page 6 of 6
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.