1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Medieval 2: Total War (Cont.)

Discussion in 'Total War Series' started by Taluntain, Mar 12, 2007.

  1. JSBB Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    1
    To make things even more difficult, given that the video takes place inside a church I assume that you would have to be assassinating the cardinal within a city.

    So not only does that make the assassination attempt harder to succeed on but it also greatly reduces the incentive for assassination. Generally speaking priests are too tough to assassinate for the level of benefit from killing them so I only take them out if they are of a different religeon from my own and they are buzzing around my cities trying to convert my citizens.
     
  2. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    I've noticed that some battles have bogged down my system so I've let the computer resolve most battles.

    I got both armies to Jerusalem, but neither one had a siege weapon make the journey. I had a ton of florins so I supplimented the armies with mercinaries to replace casualties along the way. The first army laid the siege while the sedons was adjacent to the first when the Mongols challenged my sieging army, bringing both forces on the fight at the same time. It turned out to be a heroic victory and as the army sacked the city, I was given the win.

    Up next, the HRE. They start in the centre of the map, and have plenty of rebel settlements nearby to take. They have one specific centre that they have to take--Rome! I figure that I could get the 44 settlements then have a couple armies camed outside Rome and snag it at my leisure. The problem is that Innsbruck and Stauffen are my castles, and while Bern, Metz and Hamburg are nearby, they won't be up and running before Venice and/or Milan will act up. I think my early action will be to unify the lands around my core under the banner of the Empire, then secure Italy where there will be some really nice cities for a reward...

    I suspect that most of the game will be fighting other Catholic factions. I think that the Pope will be a pain in the butt this time around...
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    At the very least, you should have Hamburg up and running. The HRE gets a small army right outside of Hamburg to start the game. So you can literally lay seige to Hamburg on your very first turn. IIRC, you also have an army nearby Bern, so that is an easy capture from very early on too. The only one on that list that you may have any trouble taking in the first couple of turns is Mertz.

    Well, you will initially share borders with France, Denmark, Poland, Hungary, Venice, and Milan. All of those are Catholic and very vew of them are going to play nice. So I'd say your assumption is correct. That having been said, having so many choices of targets also means that the Pope is unlikely to tell you to stop hostilities against ALL of them. In fact, if you play your cards right, you may very well be able to get one of them excommunicated.

    Two other points I would like to add - there's no real need to wait until you get to 44 settlements to take Rome - although there's nothing wrong with that if you chose to do so. What I typically do instead is take it as soon as I get excommunicated for some other reason. Unforunately excommunication is a real possibilty playing the HRE. Because you have SO many enemies it's not always practical to stop an attack against someone without seriously weakening your position. If either the Pope or King is really old, sometimes it's better to get excommunicated, knowing you'll be reconciled a few turns later.

    The second and REALLY annoying thing that you go through with the HRE is that you are constantly fighting off Inquisitors. I don't know why so many Inquisitors are sent, but they show up early and often. You'll need to develop several assassins pretty early unless you don't find having your family members getting knocked off. Of course, if your assassin should fail, then that can get you excommunicated too, so certainly assassination attempts should only be undertaken by your most skilled agents.

    I think I need 4 more settlements, one of which must be Jerusalem to finish up as England. This clearly was one of my easier run-throughs. I think I shall take the Moors next. I want to try out their camel gunners.
     
  4. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    Yes, Jerusalem is specifically specified for England and France. A pain in the butt for sure, but doable.

    2 attemps aborted and a third that looks good, Venice has acted up three times, Milan has acted up the first two and has other problems this time, but are excommunicated, so a well placed army and a mission from the Pope might benefit me in the short term. Denmark is one for 3 thus far (mind you the first was brief and the second I got Excommunicated for fighting them off and aborted when a third faction declared war while my economy was flatlining).

    Did see Venice get the E-bomb from the Holy Father this current game while they were at war with me. I had been threatened with said fate at the time if I didn't back off them (so I used the time to build up a propper army) only to see them attack Milan's Crusade army. Milan, currently my allies, have yet to catch me with my pants down, and thus have acted up elsewhere (and gotten the E-bomb from the Vatican for their transgressions).

    I was thinking of delaying due to the sensitive nature of of Rome itself. I believe that such an assault would be instant Excommunication, Inquisitions and likely crusades against me. Let's not make this more entertaining than it already promises to be...

    You'd be surprised how often you can get away with letting Rome yank the leash. While under such threats, I move attacking armies in range of the settlements I want then when teh Pope turns his back, whammo! I've hit that for up to 3 cities in the past...

    They do come early, but I've never seen them better or worse than any other faction. I think I only see more of them because of the proximity to Rome and the lower relations at start.

    I've annexed Hamburg, Metz (converted to city), Antwerp, Prague and Florence, and had Venice at one point, but couldn't hold off a counter attack. I'm trying to build up an army and may make it to Bruges, and Have yet to determint the disposition of Zagreb. I'm going to try the 3 castle thing, only adding another castle is I need a forward base somewhere. I have also tried building most of an army in any given castle (and only when I have a general ready to load). I've kept my economy afloat and only have a war on one front (Hamburg is well protected), France is busy elsewhere, Milan hasn't turned on me yet...

    I think this might be my game as HRE and so soon...
     
  5. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    Any direct attack on one of the Papal States' cities or a Papal army does get you instantly excommunicated. It's automatic, no warning, no play nice, you're done.

    What I had not realized until playing the HRE was that the Pope is the Papal States' faction leader, and when he travels with the the Papal Army, he appears on the battle screen as a general, complete with a heavy body guard unit (and plate mail armor and a sword of course - but he doesn't wear the silly hat). Because of this, it is possible to greatly diminsh the time you are excommunicated. The thing is, if the Pope is not in Rome, make sure you take Rome FIRST. If that is the only city the Papal States control (which is likely), you will get the "faction eliminated" and "hostilities cease" pop-ups, the Papal Army turns rebel, and you are instantly reconciled. At that point some other faction will gift a settlement to the Papal States, and a new Pope will be elected and everything is groovy. So if you play your cards right, and don't lay seige to Rome but attack it straight away, it is possible to be excommunicated and reconciled in the same turn.

    I'd say take them both. From my experience the only faction that covets the Burges and Antwerp settlements is Denmark, and if they are well bottled-up, it is likely that you will be able to hold them without much of a garrison. Zagreb is one of the first settlements that Venice takes, and is much more developed than Durrazo. If you're quick, you can take Venice, Zagreb, Durrazo, and the one other one just northwest of Durazzo fairly quickly, which basically knocks the Venetians off the European mainland. Once they are stuck on their island capital they are no further threat. In fact, once I did that to the Venetians in my attempt as the HRE, I never bothered eliminating them from the game.

    The biggest problem with eliminating the Venetians is that it gives you a border with the Byzanatines. The Byzantines are not a particularly strong faction, but they get thier best unit (the Vardariotai) very early in the game. They are excellent horse archers and are a royal pain to deal with on the battlefield.

    In general, I do not set a pre-determined number of castles to have during the game. The reason for this is while it is possible to convert a citadel, you only get a city back. So you change a level 4 development structure into a level 3 development structure, which seems pretty far from a fair trade if you ask me. So, in the later stages of the game, when money isn't really an issue, I tend to hold onto citadels, especially well developed ones. A well developed citadel will be the perfect place to retrain your conquering army before moving on. Of course, anytime I conquer a castle I ALWAYS see what troops I can get retrained even if I plan on converting it to a city. I just have them work on a chapel or something else that is small that will survive the conversion to a city while the troops get retrained.

    [ March 29, 2007, 21:19: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]
     
  6. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    I'll have to remember that trick about the papal states. Perhaps even attacking the Pope and Rome when I can't dodge the E-bomb.

    I have both now. I also have Paris and Rhiems courtesy of a stab on France (the cease fire was signed before the pope asked me to leave them alone), and Angers surrendered by Milan to avoid a beatdown after they acted up (may use as a forward base in Western Europe).

    Meanwhile I did eliminate Venice adding Venice, Ragusa, Durazzo and Zagreb. I've decided to keep Ragusa as a Castle in order to have a forward base in the Balkans incase Byzantium turns on me or interferes with my goals. Since I don't need Antioch or Jerusalem, I can ignore crusades that don't come with a threat of excommunication...

    Right now, Poland is the biggest concern. Technicaly, I'm allied to them, but they've been Excommunicated twice and now control the Papacy and have significant presence within the College of Cardinals. They've been warring with Hungary since the beginning, and havfe had some success. Milan and France have also been at war with each other most of the game.

    Sicilly hasn't been a problem, and Bordeaux is stil in Rebel hands (sounds like another good City).

    I've found that your advice on having castles as versitile production centres has worked wonders. Thanks. I'm also finding that as long as I only build military units when I actually have a general to lead them (or a garrison that needs to be shored up) my Economy floats more castles than the reccommended ratio that people have mentioned here. I've got 20 settlements (turn 65), 5 of which are Castles (Innsbruck, Stauffen, Hamburg, Ragusa and Angers).
     
  7. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    There's no "magic number" for castles where you need exactly X number of castles for you economy to work well. Any ratio you are given is just a general guideline. What works for some will not work for others. About the only thing were there seems to be a consensus is that you need significantly fewer castles than cities. However, even if you have a few more castles than you'd like, you should never convert a castle if you actually need to have a castle there. Ragusa is the perfect example. You already have 4 other castles, but none of them are anywhere near Ragusa, so you definitely want a castle there, especially with potential hostilities along that front with both Hungary and the Byzantines. Sophia is another example of a settlement that should remain a castle because of it's strategic importance. The thing is, once you do decide to have a castle in a location, then do it right by building as much stuff as you can. It's always nice to be able to build a full functional and upgraded army in a few turns, all from the same castle.

    In my current game, I should win tonight. I have not quite reached the year 1300. I currently have 42 settlements, have Oslo and Lisbon under siege, and have an army (although not a great one) on the way to Jerusalem. Jerusalem is in Sicilian control right now, and the Pope has ordered me to play nice, but I think that the timer on the Pope's mission will expire by the time my army arrives via sea. Even if it doesn't expire, by the time I get there, I will have 44 settlements, meaning I win provided the attack is successful.
     
  8. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2001
    Messages:
    6,116
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    121
    I dont understand how you guys keep having so much problems with the pope. Pretty soon into the game I always control the college of cardinals and the papal chair itself if I play a catholic faction which gives me some leeway. There is also rarely any need to initiate aggression yourself. Your neighbours do it for you and thus invoke the papal wrath. I just back off for a few turns when the pope tells me and consolidate what I ahve already taken and when the edict is lifted I finished what I was doing. The pope is a teddybear, just make sure you have max amount of priests and keep them busy in heathen lands to skill them up.
     
  9. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    @joacqin - Well, keep in mind that we a discussing how to play the game as the HRE, in which, if you want to win the game, confronting the Pope and getting excommunicated is an eventuality. That is, unless you think you can get the Papal States to hand over Rome peacefully. You see, the long campaign with the HRE is to hold at least 45 settlements, including Rome.

    Although this did get me to thinking - is it possible to purchase a faction's LAST settlement? I have found that the going price for a settlement is anywhere between 10,000 and 50,000 florins, depending on how developed the settlement is. It also seems like buying in bulk helps. If you offer something like 60,000 florins, you can usually get about 3 settlements at once.

    However, I wonder if it's possible to purchase a faction's LAST settlement? Assuming that it's a fairly developed city, and would go for 50,000 florins, what would happen if you offered to pay 100,000 florins? Would the AI accept and auto-eliminate itself?
     
  10. Dalveen

    Dalveen Rimmer gone Bald Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2002
    Messages:
    1,443
    Media:
    3
    Likes Received:
    9
    You cant purchase a factions capital.
     
  11. JSBB Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hmm, I just got the e-mail announcing the inevitable expansion.

    Here is the message for anyone who didn't register and sign up for their junk e-mails.

     
  12. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    6,586
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    162
    Brilliant. I'll be getting that then. When's it out?
     
  13. JSBB Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone


    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Messages:
    4,054
    Likes Received:
    1
    The e-mail didn't say but the Sega website is showing it as scheduled for Fall 07.

    The Sega website lists the following features

     
  14. Register Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,146
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    If they don't include the Swedes in this game I'm gonna ****ing burn down the SEGA building.

    And Vikings doesn't count. I mean the Swedish Empire.
     
  15. Duffin Gems: 13/31
    Latest gem: Ziose


    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm sure they will Register, otherwise they'd really be scraping the barrel for more factions.

    This looks quality, I havent played for a while so this might get me interested again.
     
  16. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    I have eliminated Venice and Milan, Sicily may have kicked the tires for an invasion of Bologna and Florence only to chicken out.

    France had been getting hammered by England and Milan (and me on a beautiful stab), is now at war with me after an assassin failed to take out a general.

    Poland blockaded a port, paid me off (250 pt for 20 turns) and then blockaded another port about 15 to 20 turns later and has lost 4 settlements already (and will lose another one when the pope turns his back). Denmark has done the same thing, but I haven't sent an army after them yet. Soon, but not yet.

    England has also acted up, and eventually I'll have to sail an army across to London (Nottingham may serve as a forward base if I choose).

    Failed assassins have cost me alliances with Byzantium and the Moors, and Spain and Portugul are at each other's throat...

    I'm getting to that point (between 85 and 90 turns in). I've got a stage 2 Theologin's guild in one of my cities, and have that city popping out priests whenever I remember to add one to the queue. I also have a city with a stage 2 Assassin's Guild, and am starting to reap some rewards. I think I can take out France's royal line before I have an army in position. The temptation is to send my level 10 assassin to Rome to eliminate the current pope (of Polish origin, my main rivals) and install my own cardinal in his place.

    I have even been successful at taking 2 to 4 cities at a time with that tactic. All you need to do is march your army right to the city that's in the cross hairs and when the edict lifts, drop the hammer!

    I will have to save up for the expansion and likely the Strategy guide...
     
  17. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    54
    # 110 new units
    # 13 new factions
    # 9 new agents
    # 50 new buildings
    # 60+ new territories across four new maps
    # 15 new multiplayer maps and scenarios
    # All-new 1v1 hotseat multiplayer campaign mode"

    OMG! A multiplayer campaign... I've been hoping for that since the Mongol expansion! Hopefully it can be played over LAN as well.

    Also, I hope Bulgaria's making the cut if the main campaign is updated. Not much of a chance if it starts in the 11-12th centuries, though. Although there was a small rebellion in 1079-80, but it didn't last long... the weirdest part is, that's the only historical reason the region could be independent at that time and not a part of the Byzantine empire. Anyway, so far they've announced 4 new campaigns - the Americas (Cortez' expedition) , Britannia (no offense to the British here, but didn't we already go over that in the Viking expansion of MTW 1? Sheesh), the Teutonic wars (no Sweden there, though), and the Crusader states in the late 12th century.
     
  18. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    I have claimed my victory as the HRE. The last 5 turns were quite eventful, as I got the last 6 settlements. At turn 113, I took Nottingham from England, 114 I knocked off the Danes, claiming Stockholm. 115 I eliminated Poland taking a port on the Black Sea. Turn 116 I openly defied a papal edic and took out both Sicillian settlements (eliminating them) bringing me to 44. I was forced to wait until turn 117 to claim Rome and the win.

    At one point I had 9 or 12 seats in the College of Cardinals and a clear majority and the Papal seat at the end.

    What Have I learned about the Germans? First, Teutonig Knights kick @$$! I like having a couple settlements building them early on as they could likely turn the tide of a war.

    Secondly, A few well developed castles where you need them works better than a lot of forts and relying on the luck of the draw to get what you need when you need it.

    Third, the majority of your military forces will be built near the core of your empire, so keep your generals loading and moving.

    Four, it is possible to keep the Pope from throwing a temper tantrum (was not Excommunicated until turn 117, when I attacked Rome).

    Five, Guilds only pop up where you may actually use them. My Theologian's Guild showed up where I actually build a couple priests and had my first Abbey. My Assassin's guild showed up where I was building assassins. Thieves guilds, Knightly orders, Merchant Guilds and Explorers guilds seem most common however, adn how many of them do you really need?

    Up next is another Catholic faction, but one with access to non catholic neighbours. Either Spain or Venice. I'll have more information later on...
     
  19. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    249
    Gender:
    Male
    OK, if there are 110 new units, and 13 new factions, it seems to me that most of the new units are developed for the new factions. I cannot possibly conceive of who they are going to get for 13 more factions. Sweeden is a logical choice, and I imagine that they may make Ireland and Wales playable factions as well - that still leaves us WAAAY short of 13 though.

    As for 4 more campaigns and 60+ more territories, I'm not really sure what they mean by that. Do they mean there will be 4 different campaigns to play with each faction, and that there is a different map for each one? Or is it the same map that we use now with 60 added territories and different victory conditions based on which campaign you chose? Also how the heck would the Aztecs be a playable faction? You're on the Americas away from everyone else! Although theoretically, the Aztec and Inca empires may have overlapped for a while. Possibly the Olmecs as well.
     
  20. Register Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,146
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Bulgaria, Serbia, Lithuania, Ukraine, possibly Norway, Sweden, Wales, Ireland, Aragon, Navarre, possibly some Crusader States, Inca... There's a lot of lesser groups that weren't covered.

    [ April 02, 2007, 23:53: Message edited by: Register ]
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.