Lynch a hero?

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Lots of people in the 507th are getting Bronze Stars, including one of the Sgts who took a wrong turn and was therefore partly responsible for the company ending up in the ambush in the first place. I'm amazed they haven't handed out a Medal of Honor yet to the Captain who sent them up the wrong road and got most of his troops killed. Surely most of the decorations being handed out related to this ambush are not deserved, but the army and conservative media want to make a military cock-up look like a triumph. At the same time as the liberal media tries to make all military triumphs look like cock-ups, we should hardly be surprised or start pointing fingers at the people who've been targeted for this type of politically-motivated misrepresentation. Let's not pick on the poor girl, shall we? Of all the people in this embarrassing situation to be getting a Bronze Star, she is least to blame for what happened and suffered the most because of it.

 

I believe that USA does not need heroes. It is the USA administration that wants to set role models and idols to be followed for her own purposes.
So what do they do? They create them from whatever they have.

 

If anything, the people that went in and rescued her should be getting Bronze Stars! They're the ones who put everything on the line, they risked their lives to go in and rescue our troops...Personally, I think that's more heroic than making a wrong turn at Alburquerque!

 

I think it's an inflation problem.

As short lived wars do not produce much situations, were someone distuinguishes him- or herself somehow. That simply means that no one qualifies for any high-ranked medal at all.

So, are medals given, that means they will be given for behaviour or actions, which would have in former wars been looked at as mundane.

 

I think that, when you look close enough, you'll still find a few people who put their lives at risk the oldfashioned way.

The US armed forces especially try more and more to replace valor through technlology and firepower in order to eliminate chance. It's an industrialisation of war, a consequent continuation of what started in WW-I and WW-II and continued over the cold war. In the age of AWACS, JTIDS and beyond-visual-range combat winning an air-combat qualifies not really as a hero.

So a cruise missile programmer, brilliantly planning the way to overcome enemy air-defence, may deserve a decoration, unlike the dude who pressed the fire-button 1000 km away from target. A pilot, flying back his crippled plane may deserve it for outstanding flying skill and courage. The same applies for a drone controller who manages to steer back a crippled drone from his comfy chair in a climatised container far away from the battlefield via satellite?

In the end that means that a majority of decorations will primarily be given to infantry - which is shrinking in numbers on the battlefield. So the choice is either new decorations or giving the old ones to armchair-warriors as well, kinda unsatisfying for the grunts.
That is a dilemma: As distances in combat get larger and long-range firepower gets greater it gets difficult to hold up the decoration criteria for soldiers.

However, not so much a dilemma in this case, where it is pretty obvious that this medal shower is for public relations only.

 

It seems to me that a lot of people are saying she is being seen as a hero in America but I don't see that. Don't see anything about her today in the local news.

The first astronauts into space were treated as heros. Ticker tape parades. Invitations to everywhere to do everything.

When sports teams win something big they're treated as heros. The 1980 US hockey team members were treated like heros. Every news source in the US talked about em. Ticker tape parades everywhere. Invitations to the Rose Garden at the White House to meet with the President etc.

Lynch hasn't had that stuff -- every article about her talks about the controversy over the staged rescue. No ticker tape parade for Lynch. Oh, what's that? The welcome back in Elizabeth, West Virginia. I've actually been to Elizabeth, West Virginia a few different times when I spent some time in nearby Parkersburg W.V. I'm pretty sure I could spit from one end of the town to the other. So, if the handful of people in Elizabeth wish to look at her as a hero more power to em - they don't often (read - never before in history) get someone who has been in the media.

The rest of America isn't treating her as such though. She isn't being invited to New York to get the key to the city. She received the bronze star apparently which I had to look up what it means - apparently not one of the elite awards as it can be awarded for 'meritorious achievement or service.' Look back at the description, there is a disjunctive 'or' there.

I don't think she is being held out as a hero anymore (at first, months ago, she may have been but when facts surfaced she hasn't been treated as such since.)

She's hardly done anything except that - what do you want? I think she had a 5 minute statement when she got home to Elizabeth and that's about the extent of it - not like she is doing Leno and Letterman right now.

I'm curious teekc, are you really from Iraq or are you just making a political statement?

 

i am not from Iraq. i am from my mother. She lives in Malaysia.

i have several thoughts, biased ones, about this incident. They all came down to a point, why Lynch is a heroine?

So, there was i, thinking for a defination for hero.
Hercules killed his family and he was considered the greatest hero in Ancient Greece. He wielded great power (regardless where he used them), so him is a hero.
The Melaka Sultan wanted to execute Hang Tuah, but he was saved. This secret never reached Hang Jebat who sought revenge for his sworn brother by attemping to kill the Sultan. Hang Tuah poped up and kill Hang Jebat. Hang Tuah was extremely loyal to his Sultan, so he is a hero.
i am sure many would agree that a family murderer and a friendship betrayer cannot be regarded as a hero. But these historic figures made it to the Heroic Hall of Fame. What is right, what is wrong? Why are we, men and women, so helpless and absurd in determining wright and rrong?

Political statement? i don't care about Amercians, my own country in a shameful mess already.

The way that media bombarded me with how great and extraordinary Lynch disgust me. It is not her fault, she is being used. To some extend, does portraying Lynch as a war heroine an attempt to further justify the war? "Look, a brave heroine fought on our side" How about those medical workers who battled SARS in far east? You get a bullet, you still can be saved. You get SARS, you better start digging your grave. The government certainly don't control the media but, from how i see it, they sure work closely together during the war.

 

I was just curious because if you really were from Iraq and not just making a political statement I was going to ask some questions about people there. I check out Al Jazeera once a week but it still would've been neat.

So some people consider it a good story *shrug. Some people even consider her a hero *shrug. Apparently a lot of people in Europe consider David Beckham a hero for kicking a ball into a net and marrying a Spice Girl *shrug.

My point is just that I think that while the initial reporting of her incident was overblown so is the reaction. It's not that big of a deal and it isn't being treated as such in most of the US. And comparisons to SARS seems pretty tangential.

 

I'm glad that others have jumped on this. I don't know what she did that was heroic. The story as originally reported (by the Washington Post IIRC) made her sound like a hero. What Blackhawk describes is what the original story was.
They have since backed away from that.
Jessica Lynch should be commended for doing her duty. She should not be villified because of the press that this story is getting.
From my perspective, the press is keeping this going, because they think it is a good story, not because it is true. Personally, I don't trust the press and think that they are whores. They don't care about the truth, just the story. They don't care who they hurt, so long as they get their story. And when they are wrong, they rarely apologize or even run a real correction.

 

Ragusa:

I agree. The honor belongs to those that risk their lives to help others.


Sprite:

In U.S. slang, that is very, very sexual... I don't think you meant that!
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On another note: athletes are NOT heroes! I absolutely loathe when their are given that honor. They don't deserve it. Especially ones like Kobe Bryant.

In the United States, the army is made up of volunteers: men and women who choose to fight and die for their country. There is no gestopo forcing people to love the government nor consider the state the supreme power. America is not Germany.

Most often the volunteers are fighting for 3rd-World countries who cry with open arms when chaos surrounds them, but then spit abnd curse after we restore order.

I am a liberal, but I understand that the men and women who serve in a forward area are heroes. Whether Lynch's gun jammed is irrelevant. She fought until she could fight no more. She did not wave a white flag and did not run away from her comrades. She fought with honor and was fortunate enough to be sent to a hospital after she passed out from loss of blood.

The doctors who also risked their lives to leave the hospital and tell the Americans where she was - knowing full well that they could be murdered for doing so - are also heroes.

I find it sad that a hatred of America or a love of terrorism can make some belittle those deserving of the title "hero".

 

It was a, *gasp* lawyer not some doctors. He must have just been hoping to put himself in a position to sign her up for a civil case.

 

That's a literary concept which gets all over repeated. summum ius summa iniuria (Biggest justice is biggest incustice) comes from such a story. A mythic lawmaker makes the biggest part of the roman law. His praised for this. Then he becomes a judge and abuses his powers to kidnap a girl to rape her. I've forgot most of the details, but in the end a big drama and the girl commits suicide... blah, blah. The main point his, his the biggest hero and the biggest villain in one person.

In lots of stories, particularly in mythology, the same pattern can be found. I think that Odysseus is also a hero which commits cold blooded murder and has as punishment to go on his huge trip. (Doesen't let he someone behind on a god-forsaken island ?)

Then the same concept can come, when the person is split in to. A superhero (superman) is fighting an evil superheor (lex luthor). Or Iago is in reality a mirror-image of Othello. I even understand that the evil-guy in Harry Potter has a lot in common with Harry Potter. He could nearly be Harry Potter, or Harry Potter could be him. Or in E.T.A Hoffman and Kafka stories, there's a lot of it.

There is a recent movie with the same theme, "unbreakable" with Bruce Willis.

 

The literary concept of the heroic ideal is the meat, bread and butter of fantasy adventure; this concept is the central theme of a literary classic such as Beowulf, as everyone knows. I won't go into the heroic ideal, because everyone who is on this web site is fully aware of it, for they have read it and played it a zillion times over.

I will only mention it because to follow the heroic ideal causes one to encounter the heroic paradox (glory in defeat). Anyone who watches sports knows that typically the losers are forgotten almost instantly. Winning and being number 1 is what being a hero mostly represents in the modern world. But there are exceptions on the subject of "literary themes."

I agree with Carl Jung who feels that heroes fulfill a deep need that resides in our unconscious. Hence what is happening with the general public's love-affair and hero worship with Jessica Lynch.

Heroes are often not role-models in the sense that the definition is often used in its current social context. Anyone who has read Hemingway will encounter the heroic ideal transformed into a modern context. If you doubt me, read the "Short Happy Life," and judge for yourself what the definition of "heroic" is in Hemingway's view. It is perhaps heroism in its purest, yet still modern sense, with all its complexities and difficulties of meaning - perhaps it goes beyond meaning.

Another interesting point on the subject of hero worship is the concept of the anti-hero, who often becomes a "hero" in a sense. For instance, during the conflict in Vietnam, a young folk singer, who could barely sing and play guitar, became a hero to millions of other young people by being the quintessential anti-hero. Bob Zimmerman, who changed his name to Dylan because he so much admired the poetry of Dylan Thomas -- fulfilled the need of giving a voice to many who could not find the right words, nor the means to convey them. Thus, an anti-war and protest singer became a "hero" during a time when thousands of American sons were actually living the heroic ideal in Vietnam. IMO, Bob Dylan represented the very powerful need of those without much power to stand-up to the powerful institutions of their time. And to somehow turn the tide of a war without ever picking up a gun and firing a single shot.

That's the thing about Jessica, although not a real hero in the sense of the word, she still somehow has touched that need to have someone with whom we can identfy with in someway. Remember, in Catcher in the Rye: "Life is a game as long as you are on the side with the Hotshots; if you are not then you better watch out" (I'm paraphrasing from memory here). Well, Jessica is kind of on our side - those who are not the Hotshots.

Of course there will be those who feel that the anti-war movement of the 60s was part of the downfall of the American war effort in Vietnam anyway. But that is missing the point about how we identify heroes and anti-heroes. For me, Holden (Catcher in the Rye) is still one of the best hero/anti-heroes in literature. Anyone else have any?

[ July 24, 2003, 05:24: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

My view of a literary hero worth looking at is someone who does the right thing (from his perspective, anyhow) even though he ends up dying or otherwise suffering for it. A strong showing of moral courage seems to be what many want in a hero.
Sadly, there's a trend that equates all suffering with heroism, so the guy who gets trapped and burned horribly becomes a hero by virtue of the pain he's undergone. I don't think that's quite what a hero is, but people who have suffered such pain, well, I'd say anything to buck them up.

 

I would just like another thing when it comes to Lynch. First off I would like to say that I have compassion for her that she has to put up with discussions like this. None of the media hype or propaganda is her doing. It is the concept not the person that is being discussed.

My point here is that Lynch's looks, gender and ethnicity is probably the main reason for her being called a hero. Do you think the media coverage would have been as great if she had been a man? Or a buff black woman? I dont really think so, but being a pale, petite, white woman she was the perfect person for the media and the establishment.

 

joacqin, you sum it up perfectly.

 

I hope you are talking about WW2 Germany. And anyway in my country every male is obliged to do his service in army because we are obliged DOES NOT mean we don't love our country or die for this love. And please most of the professional soldiers are there for basically one thing money and a secure job so please spare me.

Hercules killed his wife who murdered him by giving him a cloack that teared of his flesh as he tried to take it off him and he is not the greatest hero for us Greeks. Oddyseus is the greatest hero and the only one who left in a island blind was Polyfimous the cyclop who was eager toeat them but he munipulated him and finally blinded him.
As for the issue here as i said before Lynchs ordeal is wrongly munipulated by the US administration not that she can say anything but i don't think she either likes this.

 

I can't believe you guys are coming up with ancient Greek myths. That's all bullcrap that never really happened. Stick to realistic examples for crying out loud.

 

I think that's the other side of the story. She, I guess so because our media isn't into the story, has become some kind of "big brother" member without being asked. And I think there is a lot of danger, that she will suffer from all that media-attention in her later life. Maybe she's going to change her name and colour her hair, because how long in the furure still journalists are going to knock on her door, trying to make follow-up story number 5000 ?

Well, as the greeks set sail to Troja, Agamemnon and Odysseus commit horrible acts, for which both are punished. Agamemnon is forced to kill his daugher and after coming home is strangled by his wife in his bath. Odysseus convinces the other greeks to abandon one of them on an god-forsaken island. That's one of the reasons he later gets punished with the Odyssee. Or at least there is one writers version of the story, which makes Odysseus look like a pretty mean bastard. I don't know if it's homer.

Edit: Spelling, Spelling, Spelling, isn't that the producer of that TV-show with the magical chichks in short dresses ?

[ July 24, 2003, 18:48: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

This is turning into a real Lynch mob.

(sorry, been holding that one in for days! )