Looking for a great BGII challenge.

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No hurry mate =). Like I said, I'm playing IA5 atm, so it will be awhile before I start another game.

I've been playing BG2 with mods for almost 10 years now, and in my experience, no matter how intelligent the AI, it can never match the wits of the player. Every AI script can be cracked eventually. What Sikret does to balance this out is to add resistances and regeneration to many creatures, but once you get to know how IA works, it is really quite managable.

In my current game, I started IA5 hearing how much more difficult certain battles were compared to earlier versions, but I actually found them easier since I've had pretty extensive experience with previous IAs

 

Really? Are you looking at the v5 Installation Readme?

I currently have it open and it says:

ie. not all of Ascension

 

I'm afraid you're not looking at the most recent readme:

http://forums.blackwyrmlair.net/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=2436

 

Oh, one more question. This playthrough I'm looking to also try out some new quests and other content.

I've got Unfinished business, Ascension and tower of deception installed.

Are there any other mods which will be compatible with BG2 fixpack? I'm not looking for huge quests, or uber items.

Another question - given that it is recommended to install SCSII and Tweakpack last, if I did install extra content, would I have to uninstall those two mods, install the extra content, then reinstall SCSII and Tweakpack?

 

Thank You Aegor!
I have avoided adding any of the mentioned mods because of worry the feuding ones have caused me reading their posts before. Now I can make a choice and will do so.
Good to have a detached and unbiased description and comments to read.

All of the mods and comments by the authors show, to me, great attention to content and passion about their product. BG & BG2 are by far my two favorite games. New content will make them playable and new again.

 

Hmm. After looking at both, I believe I see the problem: the installation readme contained in the v5 download is not for v5 after all. It appears to be the v4.3 one, despite having the v5 title. Sikret must have simply forgotten to change it.

 

For that purpose, you may want to try my Chosen of Cyric encounter.

It pits the player's party against an opposing party of six high-level characters who are all fully equipped with magical items as is appropriate for their level. They only use tactics which are available to similar player characters and you can loot all of their equipment after the battle.

 

The incompatibilities with Ascension and Kelsey have been discovered after the release of IA v5. That's why they are added to the readme in the forum, but you don't find them in the document in the download package. However, Improved Anvil will not install properly if either of those two mods are installed before IA and will give error messages during installation, which means that the player will know that something is wrong anyway.

The important point is that IA should always be the last mod you install. In that way, it will give errors during installation in such cases. But if you try to install Ascension or Kelsey after IA, they will install with no error messages and will break IA's content silently. It's already emphasized in IA's readme file that it should be the last mod the player installs (with the sole exception of my mini-mod "The Four" which should be installed after IA).

For one single battle (or even two), your method may be acceptable. You actually do give resistances and extra abilities to those enemies (I have checked those items' abilities), but you do it through droppable items. Then, you pour all those powerful items in the player's hand and say 'good bye' to him and don't have to worry about the party's power and the game's balance for the rest of the game. However, if you were supposed to improve many battles in that way or to add several similar encounters to the game, you would have seen the consequent problems and that it's not a good long-term solution.

In fact even those many items the enemies drop in that one single encounter can really disturb the game's balance. However, since Rogue Rebalancing mod ends there with that encounter, you have not practically considered or encountered the problems those many items (given to player in one single encounter in chapter 6) can create for the rest of the game.

I'm sure you understand that what I wrote here was not supposed to be taken as a criticism; it was just to elaborate an important point: Methods used is the Chosen of Cyric encounter can't be considered acceptable or taken as a model when we discuss mods which are improving the whole game (rather than adding one or two encounters to the game).

 

Glad I could be of use Old One . Whatever you choose I'm sure you'll have fun playing it which is the main purpose of the whole thing (the entertainment we get from watching the mod makers battle each other from time to time is a nice bonus however ).

 

I agree with that.

However, how many human parties does the player ever fight? Need they always be equipped with kit better than or equal to the players own? If their numbers, positioning and tactics are good, they can still be challenging.

if you were to be ambushed by a party of 6 characters wearing say mostly +3 items (which lategame are only useful for their weight in gold, and gold itself is only so useful), then it could still be a challenging fight. Maybe you fight 9 high level characters wearing mostly +2 level items. Can still be challenging. Include some monks, wizard slayers and inquisitors for potentially quite a challenging battle (for obvious anti magic abilities).

The point I'm making is that, yes, if the player always fought humans who always wore better kit, yes the game becomes.... boring. But firstly they dont always need better kit to be challenging, secondly in the course of the game, most of the challenging fights are against non human enemies. Dragons, liches, Irenicus etc. Those fights can drop whatever treasure is needed, a Dagger +1 if need be.

Of course, being that the player seldomly fights humans, this is rather pointless. most of the other enemies, being non human, would have their own characteristics, possibly including resistances and immunities, which, as far as I'm aware, were nerfed from PnP to BG2. So there is scope for difficulty there.

 

True, though the abilities provided by the items are not unique, and they are available to the player by other means. For example, the immunity to fear which the "Dead Man's Face" helmet provides is similar to the fear immunity provided by the Dragonslayer longsword.

I guess that's subjective, but personally, I don't think that those items upset the balance of the game by much, especially when compared to some other mods which also introduce additional items (i.e. Weimer's Item Upgrade and Unrepresented Items) or even the items which can be purchased from the Bonus Merchants. However, I realize that they may be a bit too much in the IA environment which has a fairly controlled item distribution system and is balanced accordingly.

No worries, I understand your point perfectly and I know that you meant no offense Sikret. After all, we've discussed the items issue in the past when I made some adjustments in order to make that component compatible with IA 5.0.

That's true, but the CoC encounter was designed as a unique, one-shot battle right from the start, and that's the main reason why I chose to make the opposing party roughly equal to the player's party in terms of experience and equipment. My primary goal was to offer a challenging party vs. party battle.

 

SimDing0's Quest Pack? (And pretty much any NPC or extra-kit mod - certainly the more recent ones will be compatible.)

It's probably sensible to. The world won't end if you install extra content after SCSII and/or tweakpack, but both mods do quite a lot of sifting through game files and modifying them as required, so there'll be a few oddities if you add other content later.

 

I avoid the Quest Pack because the installer is bugged.

I've downloaded it tons of times, and it seems to magically install the creature and area enhancements without me wanting it to. And I cant uninstall it afterwards. So I think it was probably a problem caused by a new version of weidu being used, that the mod wasnt designed for.

In any case, although some of the components are cool, the area enhancements make the game (welll at least the beholder lair) too difficult for me, and seeing as I cant prevent it from being installed I dont use the mod.

 

You actually can uninstall it, but it is the names on the components wich are confused around that specific component, the others work fine. I don't remember the names well, but I think it's the Shadow Thieves component right after the creature and area enhancements. So you'll just have to skip the component right after the enhanced area/creature component.

Regards

 

Oh! Thanks, I might try that.

You know, I really am grateful to all these modders who put hours of work into the game. Baldurs Gate 2 was brilliant to begin with, but now its just pure awesome.

 

I was mostly thinking of resistance to physical damage (certain damage types) some of those items in CoC encounter grant to the wielder.

But yes, even resistance to physical damage is not a big deal, and is in principle available to players.

In Improved Anvil, every sort of resistance certain enemies may have are completely "legal" (considering the new type of potions added to the game) and also available to players (and easier to gain than in the vanilla game). The different methods players can gain them "legally" are explained in IA's F.A.Q.; but anyone playing the mod for long will know those methods even without reading the mod's FAQ. So, even temporary (but long lasting) high resistance to physical damage is much easier to gain for the players in IA than in the vanilla game (i.e. it's not just "in principle", but "in practice" available).

Thank you, aVENGER!

My main point, which you also agreed to, was that in mods such as IA, we can't improve battles in large scales and large numbers by giving powerful droppable items to each and every enemy.

Cheers

 

Yes, items which grant physical resistances are indeed rare, but I think that the two CoC items (Holdfast and Abishai Hide) which grant such bonuses are comparable to similar items from the unmodded game (i.e. Defender of Easthaven and Orc Leather). In both cases the bonus is below 20% though I suppose it could be problematic if a large quantity of such items became available to the player since those bonuses are stackable.

Agreed, taking that approach for a large number of battles would certainly unbalance the game and make it even more of a Monty Haul than it already is. That's why I tend to give regular opponents a small number of consumable items such as potions, scrolls, wands and magical ammo i.e. whatever is most appropriate for their class. This can often significantly improve their combat prowess without unbalancing the game and it's completely fair toward the player who has access to the same resources. I mainly use this in my Shadow Thief Improvements component which features a number of combat encounters with regular enemies. Heh, sometimes, it's truly amazing what difference a single Oil of Speed or ten Arrows of Biting can make.

 

Well, it's probably the time for me to reply to Krolox's initial question and add some important facts about IA.

First of all, it should be emphasized that Improved Anvil is not merely a combination of tactical improvements and item upgrades; it's much more than that (as some other posters have already mentioned in this thread). Improved Anvil (alone) adds so much new content to your game that if you want the same amount of new content by installing other mods, you will probably have to install too many mods which will hardly work together without any conflict; while IA alone adds that much of new content in a flawless and bugfree way.

Another important point about IA is that it adds a great re-playing value to the game. Every time you start a new game with IA, many things will be different for you compared to your previous game with the mod. Noone can see every thing in IA by playing it for one or two times. Depending on your protagonist's class new and different quests and encounters will await you in the game and the mod's item randomizer will put the game's important items in new and different locations for you.

Objections stated about Role-playing don't make any sense to me, because I don't see how a mod which adds so many new quests can have any negative effect on role-playing features of the game. Obviously, I have a different definition of the term "role-playing" than those people. For me, role-playing is not an opposite term for power gaming. You can have great role-playing experience in the new quests offered by this mod while you also have to have a powerful party and fight very well at each and every stage of the game.

The old known cheesy methods no longer work. The new battles are similar to chess matches in which you have to think very well. Contrary to what some probably less skilled players have said, mages are still very useful characters not only in debuffing enemies and in defensive phase but also in direct offensive action; however, playing mages is now more difficult than before and you need to learn better and less cheesy methods when playing your mages. An IA game is by no means a hack-n-slash game for those who know how to play spellcasters effectively.

All in all, Improved Anvil is primarily made for veteran BG2 players who are tired of playing the same game over and over again and want to have an entirely new experience of the game. However, this doesn't mean that only very skilled players can play and enjoy the mod. Less experienced players can also play IA provided that they have the patience to draw a learning curve for themselves and improve their skills. They will notice that they are gradually improving and the number of times they have to reload battles is decreasing. They will eventually reach a point of tactical skills that they won't enjoy the game without IA installed, because it will be too easy for them to play the game without this mod (these are not my words; players have said them).

As for the changes applied to the game's rules, The rules are changed only when I had considered the changes as "improvements". Several vanilla bugs are fixed; many known exploits are blocked. Everyone can read the documents and decide.

The last words:

I made this mod and I'm constantly developing it and adding new features to it for my own use and for those who agree with me and those who enjoy playing it. I do not insist on convincing anyone to play it. Anyone who doesn't like it won't play it. There is no point in arguing over it. You don't pay me for making this mod and I don't feel obliged to keep everyone happy. Play it if you like it and don't play it if you dislike it. The only thing I don't like to see is some people spreading lies and plainly false information about my mod (something that I unfortunately see very frequently).

Edited for typos

 

Although Sikret has an understandable bias in favor of IA, I can't disagree with most of what he said above. I might have minor quibbles with a few of his comments, but all in all, if you disregard his natural bias, he is fairly accurate.

However, I have to emphasize one of his remarks:

I can't stress enough the importance of the word "patience". I'm not talking about taking 5 minutes to win a battle that usually takes 3 minutes. Often, you're looking at hours and countless reloads to win a single battle as you try one approach, fail, try another approach, fail again, go have dinner, try again a few more times, go to bed, get up, go to work, come home, try again, go to the store to by a new monitor to replace the one you smashed in frustration, etc.

Joking aside, if you're looking for a challenging but still relaxing BG2 game, then IA is probably not your cup of tea. But if you want the ultimate challenge, then give IA a shot.

 

So, I've been using SCS II for a while now, am now in the Underdark, and I thought I would give some feedback, as requested by someone earlier in this thread.

First, its not too different. It doesnt make sweeping changes like IA does. But it does do what it says on the tin - make the gamer harder, generally without changing the stats of the monsters, usually only changing scripts. So far, the AI is good, and mages are much more challenging to fight, due to much better spell selection, casting order, and target selection. Even melee enemies use potions, or make better use of potions they already had.

Someone used to IA would probably find it a cake walk, but for me, its challenging enough to be interesting, but easy enough to not be frustrating.

I have had one or 2 minor problems though, hopefully David W can fix these in later patches.

Firstly, I would love to deny enemies the ability to use SPell Immunity: Divination. That combined with improved invisibility, in most cases, means a reload for me. I'm sure there is another spell of a different school that can dispel invisibility, but I dont know what it is, and my inquisitors dispel magic doesnt work, so I'm screwed. Also, I see some mages use 2 spell immunities - abjuration and divination. I see that IA goes on about how it doesnt allow this, is this game legal? I also have disabled the component that allows enemies to cast spells instantly at the start of battle, but it still seems to happen. Either that or they have very long contingencies.

Also, I had an issue where if a mind flayer attacked on of my party, it could affect players a few screens away. Not sure if this is a real mind flayer power or just a bug.

Oh, one last thing, is there supposed to be a priest of cyric at mae vars side, who doesnt help him in the battle?

Anyway, great work in general David W.