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Legally doing without discs

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by dmc, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    My son and I both feel like playing Tutu right now, which means that we each need the TOB disc. It's my original from way back when, and it's only one, and I don't want to buy another, so here's the question:

    Is there a way to copy the disk to the computers so that the machine thinks it's there when it checks so that we can both play at the same time? We both moderately nooby when it comes to these things, so please use small words and lots of explanations.

    If there's no legal way to do it, no sweat, he can wait on me . . .

    :p
     
  2. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    It's possible to clone it on the hard drive but it's about as legal as making a copy when it's intended to be used by more than the original owner. Technically speaking, of course. And if you've never done something like that before you're likely going to spend far more time setting it up than the 10 bucks a new copy of BG2+ToB costs.

    Or the whole IE shebang for 20 bucks... shouldn't you be looking for things to buy your kid this month anyway? :D
     
  3. Morgoth

    Morgoth La lune ne garde aucune rancune Veteran

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    What do you mean 'legally', you bought the product didn't you? Isn't there something like fair use?
     
  4. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    [​IMG] There are no-cd patches, I ended up using one when my discs went awol before moving house. The game will have to be fully patched and modded before applying it. (I've also used a similar patch for Fable because the bloody thing didn't recognise it's own CD :doh:)

    From the site I used before:
     
  5. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


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    Hugely misleading because it doesn't say in which country are the rules supposed to apply.
    In mine it isn't true.
     
  6. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    dmc,

    Is a no-cd patch illegal if used with a legally purchased product? IMO the answer is no. Using a no-cd patch simply saves your disk. Of course, when you use a no-cd patch so your son can play the game then you may be going into a gray area.

    If I needed to purchase the game again I would probably use gog.com.
     
  7. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Isn't one of the specific points of copyright laws to prevent someone from doing precisely this?
     
  8. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    It seems that you're trying to use common sense to figure out the letter of law. Sadly, with copyright it doesn't work like that.
    Do you mean generalities or some specific law?
    If generalities, then no, copyright is supposed to increase public access to knowledge and culture by motivating creation by giving creators limited monopoly on the use of their work. There are many different views on what is such limited monopoly and most countries regulate it somehow, but AFAIK what you highlighted is not a common part of these interpretations.
    The "AFAIK" is important, IANAL, but I know that:
    -this is not a part of any major copyright treaty
    -this is not a part of EU law
    -this is not a part of my country's law
     
  9. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    AFAIK it is, because part of what's illegal is "circumventing DRM copy protection" (or something like that), which is what no-cds do by eliminating the need to access a CD for validation. (We had a quasi-legal professional look into this for ToEE - a game that often wouldn't work without a no-CD - and that was their conclusion.)

    That said, GoG somehow gets around the DRM thing because they obviously don't distribute software by CD, but I'm guessing this is due to their licensing agreement. (They even included a no-CD in their edition of ToEE.) Plus, I kind of doubt that anyone's really on the ball trying to hunt down BG pirates anymore.
     
  10. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    No-CD cracks are illegal, that's the only reason why we don't have them up on SP. Though given how old these games are I don't think anyone's worried about mass piracy any more so I'll likely put them up for download on SP at some point - simply because, as Gaear wrote, some people can't even run some of the games without resorting to them.
     
  11. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    OK, technically two different people would be using the game, but dmc legally purchased the game, and the two computers the game would be played on would both be owned by dmc, and they both would be playing in the same house. I'm with T2B, in that I do not think that is the purpose of the copyright law.

    That said, the easiest solution would be to spend $10 on another ToB CD. Technically, you wouldn't even NEED the additional SoA CDs. The most sensible thing to do if you both want to start right away, would be to setup SoA on your son's computer and let him play through that portion of the game. By the time he gets through it, to ToB CD will arrive, and you might even be done with it by then, even if you don't buy an additional copy.
     
  12. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Look, it's very clear cut. You can't legally install and play the same game on more than one computer at the same time unless the game gives you specific licence to do that. Some do, but they're an exception to the general rule which does not allow this. The disc check is there to prevent exactly that - casual piracy (within the same household or otherwise). The GOG versions, however, come with a different licence - they don't have any DRM protection at all. They're relying on the conscience and ethics of their customers not to pirate the games. Funny notion, I know...

    This probably needs to be emphasized - even games with no DRM protection aren't allowed to be freely copied. Think of the game as a physical book. Only one person can read it at a time. If both father and son want to do it, they either have to do it in turns or buy two copies. Photocopying would obviously be breaking the law. It's exactly the same with computer games.

    For the record, I'm not saying what you should or shouldn't do in this situation, I'm merely discussing the legalities of it. Which are really quite clear - a personal backup means YOU get to make and use it. You don't get to make a "backup" and pass it around to be played as a shadow copy by someone else.
     
  13. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I don't understand why people here are recommending using a no-cd patch. Why not just make an image of your CD and mount that in some program. Not that it's more legal or anything, but at least it doesn't require you to install third party programs and face possible problems with mods.

    I'm not entirely sure if it's legal here to make a backup copy (it is for music, but I'm pretty sure it's not for software), but since it's the only way I can play it, or even install it on my laptop (which doesn't have a CD drive), I'm not too concerned about it.

    Anyway, for dmc I would recommend just to get a secondary copy. It doesn't cost much anyway and if you get it from GoG.com you don't have to deal with CDs either. And hey, you can support SP indirectly too!
     
  14. Bsisi Gems: 5/31
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    Guys, I can't really look at how you discuss legality of stuff w/out talking about where is it supposed to apply. The OP made his location clear, but neither of you did. Maybe you're both from the US and you know each other's location, but a casual reader coming here will be mislead.
    And location is something that really matters.
    For example in my country I can photocopy a book and give it to my father. And he can photocopy his copy and give it to his friend. Here the law considers it to be normal and it's doubly useful in the digital age. In fact, I can even break DRM if it prevents me from making a copy and giving it to a friend or a relative.
    Though OTOH this doesn't apply to computer software at all, so I can do what the license says and nothing more, not even make backups. You can guess which part of the law gets more respect.
     
  15. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I might just get another copy because my original looks like it's been used as a coaster for a glass made out of steel wool (well, maybe not that bad, but still).

    Henkie, what's involved in mounting an image (or imagining a mount, or whatever)?
     
  16. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I don't know if this is allowed - and if not, Tal, please trash this post - but I guess it should be because creating an image file and mounting it isn't illegal in and of itself.

    First thing to do is to create an image file from you disc. To do this, insert the relevant disc into your disc drive. If you have any program to burn data to CDs, it will probably also allow you to create an image of this disc. If not, you can download this program to create it.

    Once done, you need to mount this image with a program like for instance this one. Programs like this basically create a virtual disc drive in which you can load any image files you have and read from them as if you had put the real disc in the drive.

    I always do this for any discs I have, if only so that I don't have to look for the disc and put it into the drive, but can just do it from the hard drive. There's of course also the fact that the disc is less likely to break if you leave it in the case all of the time. And that you can then use this disc on a computer that doesn't have an actual physical drive.
     
  17. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    Not sure if I'm one of the "neither," but if I am, I live in the US. :)
     
  18. Cap'n CJ

    Cap'n CJ Arrr! Veteran

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    You could grab the game cheap off GOG
     
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