Legal Brothels in the UK

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Just to be clear, I fully recognize that there are many women who have made a "lifestyle choice" to sell their bodies for $ -- While i still believe that this is morally wrong, there's a lot of things that are preently fully legel that I also believe are wrong, and I don't spend a lot of time trying to get them made fully illegal. It's just that there are also MANY cases wherein it is not a simple lifestyle choice.

In addition to all this, Western society's official position on sex has usually been that it is something special, sacred even, that should not be debased by having it sold. However, I'll also be the first to admit that in practice, like many other societies (if not all) people professing such ideals within western society are also the ones secretly going out for some nookie on the side.

As for HBs comment on not wanting a family member to be doing the job, there are a lot of jobs out there that I wouldn't want a family member doing. Here's some examples: Hooker, abortion doctor, tobacco salesman, Stripper, professional assassin, legbreaker, thief, defense lawyer for multiple serial rapists. All of these things are, in my eyes, immoral, and I don't care if people call me judgemental. The whole point of living in a democracy is that I'm allowed to have opinions as long as I do not infringe on the rights of others.

 

I don't think that morality has anything to do with why prostitution should be legal.The fact is it has always been around and alway's will be.No law will ever stop prostitution.Maybe we should just be practical and regulate it , tax it , and use the for money for programs that would help the women involved.
Many of the women involved are young runaways ,drug addicts and people that have been abused in one way or anther.We could use the tax money to set up drug treatment programs , counseling and educational programs.
One other thing that could be gained by legalising it is the end of wasted police man hours.At least here in the United State's we spend alot of resources bringing in the women involved and the men that pay for it.The women never realy spend any real time in jail,usualy they are just released the next day.All that realy happens is the end up with an extensive arrest sheet that prevents them from re entering society in a more productive way.
This cycle in the State's is a complete waste of police resources that could be better spent catching real crimminals.
Also these women are very vuneralbe working outside of society.It is very dangerous.Perhaps some regulation could save some lives.

 

But do you think legalising will stop exploitation? If the mafia keeps brothels against all the laws that are in power now, will it stop exploitation if prostitution becomes legal?

 

No Chevalier I don't think it would stop all exploitation.Even if you make it legal I beleive there would still be an under belly that you can't control.I just think that maybe we could serve the greater good through regulation.

 

Yes, there is such a possibility but what with the greater good that is achieved by petty evil? Is it still good? We can't foresee all the consequences and it will hurt badly if the petty evil hits back and the greater good goes poof...

 

Only if you presume that sex without love is naturally "evil." It's a black'n'white way to see things; the steam needs to come out somewhere and governments can decide is it via the black markets or clean, safe routes of the official companies. It makes no difference to the clients: if they got the need, they WILL travel to the the end of the world to get the satisfaction they can't get from elsewhere.

 

Depends what you mean by love, because sex without romantic feelings doesn't have to be evil. However, egoistic pleasure is more or less the definition of evil. As such, exploiting people's drunkenness is an evil act. Similarly, developing certain sexual patterns is striking against your own body and psyche, because they impoverish you spiritually or harm in other ways.

On that you are right.

[ January 29, 2006, 23:12: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

So why make it difficult then? "Egoistic pleasure = evil?" Are you trying to pull my leg or something?

 

Maybe for some people, but that statement surely doesn't apply to all males. I've never gone to a prostitute, and neither have any of my friends (AFAIK). Sure, I, like most of my friends are now married, so that's one more reason we don't go to prostitutes, but it's not like we ever did that before we were married, or did it when we didn't have girlfriends. While I don't completely agree with chev's definition of evil, this point of view seems to me to be overly simplistic.

To put it another way, it's like you're saying sex is a need, whereas I would say it is a want, or a strong desire - but not a need.

 

Then why deny your nature then? And more importantly: why allow others to deny it from you?

 

No, I'm dead-serious. Seeking pleasure out of its proper context or without regard to its possible consequences is selfish. What is selfish and destructive is evil unless we're talking about such a level of naivete that it's hard to speak of evil.

Sleeping with a prostitute contributes to her further degradation, provides her business with material support, making it profitable, shows women there is a demand for such services, contributes to the invidual's own degradation. For what? For momentary carnal pleasure. If that's not evil...

Yes. Or even a need actually but one you can live without fulfilling. No matter what you say about liberation and all, sex drive is still a biological call to reproduce.

Why restrain yourself if you feel like killing a nasty fellow citizen? Just the fear of jail or is there more to it?

 

Following that logic, you are claiming that all pleasure out of its proper context is evil. Now, who is to say what is proper and what is not?

Then you claim that what is selfish and destructive is evil. Does selfish lead to destruction? If not, then it alone is hardly nothing uncommon. If yes, then the world is hanging at the verge of doooom, for everyone is selfish. (Naturally, doh; you don't do anything unless it benefits you somehow.)

And again you also presume that all prostitutes are degraded ruins of a woman. You know what: I dare to claim that pigs fly too, because both are as true. Or whichever you believe, in which case it's just a matter of opinion and there is a such a thing as "freedom of opinion." Incidentally, governments should promote this.

Lastly, you again compare this 'biological call to reproduce' to something completely different: murder. I'm pretty sure you, I, and everyone here know that sticking a penis into a woman is something different altogether than sticking a bullet into her head.

So, do you have some logical arguments left or do we proceed with me kicking your arse?

 

Hmm, it's kinda strange from a certain angle - since it isn't likely that prostitution will be eliminated anyway, is the state a better proprietor than private persons?

 

It's legal in New Zealand - a Commonwealth country. The whole idea is that regulations protect both supplier and consumer.

The reasons for not legalising prostitution are pretty much limited to that fact that sex workers are degrading themselves. However all legal prostitution establishments' working girls are WILLINGLY working in the business. Nobody is forcing them to work there, nobody is taking advantage of them and if somebody does they have to answer to the law. Regular blood tests are required to detect STDs and the girls INSIST on using condoms every time and if the man doesn't want to then they aren't getting any business.

Frankly it's a win-win situation. Those who don't want to pay for sex don't have to. Those who do can. There will always be prostitution, there will always be people who pay money for sex and it's something VERY difficult to enforce if it is made illegal. Might as well regulate it, remove the whole criminal underworld element, government gets some tax revenue from something it otherwise wouldn't.

I've met some legal prostitutes in New Zealand. They're nice girls, some are ashamed at what they do - some aren't, they're earning a nice income and their clients are happy with the service.

Maybe it's because New Zealand isn't very religious that we were so willing to legalise prostitution, we decided that police effort was better spent elsewhere, we might as well get some tax from something that's going to happen anyway or maybe all of the above.

Making it illegal simply forces it underground into a world where the law holds little weight and murder, theft, assault, human trafficking are common and often are mixed with prostitution. If they have to compete with a legal enterprise they'll soon go out of business - who would you rather deal with? The legal brothel or some pimp on the side of the street? Sure the legal might be more expensive but you're assured you won't be taken into an alley, beaten to a pulp and robbed.