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KOTOR 2

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Series' started by Sirus, Jul 4, 2004.

  1. Sirus Gems: 2/31
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  2. ejsmith Gems: 25/31
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    Obsidian isn't Bioware. I'm not trying to be a fanboi or a pessimist, I'm just trying to be realistic. And realistically speaking, there are things that work and there are things that almost work. And then there are things which are better left undone.

    This one probably should have been left for Bioware, sometime in the future. Or possibly, the reminants of BlackIsle.
     
  3. Sirus Gems: 2/31
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    Well, they have plenty of people who worked on other great role playing games(Fallout, Torment). And in my opinion Bioware is overated.
     
  4. Equester Gems: 18/31
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    bioware is definitely overrated, just look at the nwn campaigns. I think KOTOR 2 sounds great, aren't much new about the looks, but the story sounds fair.
     
  5. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    I can't wait for it. I am confident that Obsidian will make a worthy sequel.

    @Ejsmith: A lot of the obsidian people are former Black Isle employees.
     
  6. Hugo Gems: 15/31
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    WOOT!
    I can't wait till this game comes out KotOR I kicked butt - and I was left hungering for more.
    This winter will be good winter.
    Let's just hope it's not a cheap franchise rip-off.
    So much for stating the obvious
    :borg:
     
  7. Nizidramanii'yt Gems: 10/31
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    honestly, what can they do to screw it up, really.The engine is already constituted, they only need to make some adjustments and make a new storyline. they'll do just fine.
     
  8. Foradasthar Gems: 21/31
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    Well, I hope they've considered the possibility that the character making it to the end may be something else than a guardian.

    In KOTOR I a fully force-oriented Jedi who didn't have the appropriate forces for doing you-know-what, in the last fight against you-know-who, and had no mines and grenades either, would find beating you-know-who impossible. First game I ever saw that in. And a pretty big screwup if you asked me.

    Also, the part about there being levelcap but player being able to advance after level 20 is strange. Does that mean that since the NWN hybrid rules system stops at level 20, they've given some sort of special KOTOR specific advancement after that? Or that you get Baldur's Gateish extrapowers based off of something else than levels? Well, guess we'll find out.

    Only thing I hope for is that they've put a limiter on the scaling enemy levels. Like I said before, I find it incredibly annoying that a level 20 consular can't beat 1-2 sandpeople in melee combat without seriously reverting to the force. It's a lightsaber afterall. And level 20 isn't exactly a padawan anymore either.

    One more thing would be the AI. How many times did I have to load because the party AI got stuck and characters stood still while the enemy kept beating them, no matter how much I paused and clicked.

    Other than that, I do have to say KOTOR was an excellent game. Especially on the evil side. I've high hopes for KOTOR 2 as well.
     
  9. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
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    ejsmith - At last count that I remember, 17 out of 20 members of Obsidian are Ex-Black Isle. Is that remnants enough for you? :p

    Edit: Of course, that count was before KOTOR2 was even announced, so it's probably not all that accurate...
     
  10. Sirus Gems: 2/31
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    I was frustrated in the fight against you-know-who as well. I had a Scoundrel\Sentienel and couldn't kill him with mines, so I just had to use lightsaber throw alot.
     
  11. Frog Gems: 12/31
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    Obsidian = Black Isle 2.0
     
  12. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    I took you-know-who out easily enough with a scoundrel/consular.

    SPOILERS


    You do know that you can destroy (light side) or drain (dark side) the Jedi so Malak can't use them, right?
     
  13. Fiatil Gems: 4/31
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    I had a bit of trouble beating him with my scout/sentinal, but I *semi spoiler I s'pose* killed all but two of the jedi that are there for him to regenerate on, and whenever he got me down low, I used life drain on one of them and went to full health. Once I was out of them, I just used force speed to hit and run alot, and use alot of medpacks.
     
  14. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yeah Foradashtar, I dont really see where you are coming from. My main peeve with KotOR was that it was way too easy, even on the harder difficulties. No matter your build. Final fight was challenging as scoundrel/consular but that was just entertaining after a guardian winning it ridicously easy.

    True, the sandpeople could be a bit annoying but that too was refreshing seeing as there arent all that many enemies in the game so I prefer fighting level scaled enemies which give xp and where you might actually lose a HP or two than winning every fight in one attack per character.

    I have high hopes for KotOR two and I hope they make it a bit tougher and a lot bigger, the first one was a bit too small as well.
     
  15. Foradasthar Gems: 21/31
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    Well since it's been all but spoiled anyway, I'll say it out straight then.

    **SPOILER**


    If you have a character that is not suited for solo combat, but team support instead. If that character has no powers at all to destroy the tanks in the endfight, if you don't have mines, grenades or pistols since you've sold everything, then what can you do? Try it. You'll find it completely impossible. Unless of course the rolls come as critical success for you every time, and failures for Malak. Now that would mean extreme luck and luck isn't my idea of challenge.

    While the type of character mentioned above may be a rare one, to some it's the only one they ever bother to create. Creating a character for dialogue and support should not be possible if at least adequate solo combat ability is to be expected of them.

    Although we all have a right to our own opinion, I just can't see any sense in valuing challenge over immersiveness and world-specific realism. Challenge or not, a level 20 Jedi is a level 20 Jedi. There's no chance in hell one of the sandpeople could beat one like that with his gaffi stick. And I mean beat one. I wasn't talking about one or two hitpoints taken. A consular actually dies very easily against 1-2 sandpeople in melee, depending on how many melee-specific abilities and other force powers you are using.

    Agreed, there needs to be some challenge to a game. But in a rulesystem like D&D, challenge is more the matter of how strong your character is than how much skill the player has. When you have a multitude of spells, items and abilities, then tactics can make all the difference. But in the simplified version of 3:rd edition rules KOTOR was using, there's really not that much room for challenge unless the player specifically decides to stay as weak as possible. Only one more reason to forget the stupid autoscaling enemy level system.

    I'll use Final Fantasy VII as an example as that's the latest game I played in this manner. There you could either fight for levels and more magical power and items, or you could just proceed with the plot and only do the basic fighting. Or like I did, only fight when necessary and basically try to make it to the end as low level as possible. That was a challenge. All the enemy levels were pre-set, so whatever your level relative to the expected level, you would notice the difference. A game should be like that. Not force a certain style on the player, but allow the player to choose his style. But the game should stick to the "rules" of the world as well.

    That's what I'm afraid of with this KOTOR 2. They said they were going to make other classes more powerful since they were useless next to a Jedi in KOTOR 1. Well, considering how in the movies the Jedi really aren't that multiclassed, this difference of power could be solved by making the game rely more on non-Jedi skills. But what I'm afraid of is they'll make blasters and armour more important than they should be. Jedi are powerful, much more powerful than any normal person could hope to be. If that difference of power has to be balanced out to make things work, then the Jedi should not have been taken into the game in the first place.

    Quite the novel. Well anyway, I think my side of the story is clear now. No autoscaling levels. It ruins immersion, realism, and takes the feeling of advancement and control away from the player.
     
  16. Jesper898 Gems: 21/31
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    @Foradasthat: I can see how you're pretty much screwed if you made a character like that :(


    I'm all for making blasters and "normal" classes more useful, you never needed Mission or Carth when you had Bastila, Juhani or Jolee, for example.
     
  17. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I also see where you are coming from Foradashtar. The probable reason that I found the game to be so non-challening is that I am a powergamer to my fingertips and find most of my enjoyment from planning and building my characters. As I spend so much thought on designing my character for maximum power I enjoy it more when it pays out and I am able to beat something really tough, that is one reason why I enjoyed BG2 so much, there were a lot of optional quests with tough fights for us powergamers. All that said, it is the plot and in KotOR and BG the character interaction which makes those games stand out from the rest. I find no enjoyment in powergaming in Diablo or its ilk.

    I completely agree on you on the matter of Jedi power though. They are supposed to be major badbutts and take out most things on their own, far above what a normal person can accomplish with weapons or body, unless they are a Fett of course. I dont mind seeing the other classes becoming more useful though but they should do it by restricting most skills from the jedi classes and introducing force immune enemies. They are plentyful in the Star Wars universe and it could be nice if your team of three jedis came up against something the force was useless against.
     
  18. Foradasthar Gems: 21/31
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    Well yes BG2 is a good example there. The scaling it had worked better anyhow, adding a lich here and there etc. And your powergamer comment brought a good point as well. Not every character needs to be able to beat every challenge. There should be enemies like the original Demogorgon. The type that would need extreme power to be taken down, but were not compulsory for the advancement of the plot.

    Force-immune enemies is a good idea as well. As a matter of fact, there should be areas where the Jedi could not reveal themselves for what they are. The movies are filled with instances like that. A city, group of people or somesuch that were crucial to your advancement but would definitely grow suspicious if you revealed yourself to be a Jedi. Without his force and the lightsaber, I think it's safe to say even a Jedi can't compare against professional "normal" combatters. Seeing as how the plot will be all about this subject, I hope they make keeping a low profile as a Jedi a big part of the game.
     
  19. Abomination Gems: 26/31
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    I want to see more use of terrain in this next installment. Time and time again have Jedi used the enviroment around them to hamper and/or kill their opponents.

    I dislike autoscaled enemies, it doesn't reward the player for earning more experience. Foradasthar mentioned Final Fantasy VII and how it is more enjoyable to face enemies that are the same no matter what level you are, interesting how Final Fantasy VIII was such a flop? It had autoscaled enemies. I want to see my Jedi PC or NPC beating the crap out of those who would be foolish enough to oppose a Jedi Master.

    If they want to make soldiers more effective they should make armor very resistant to blasters but weak against lightsabers. So they can work like tanks as they should be against enemy blaster/conventional weapon users.

    Force immune enemies are good challanges. Vehicles! I wann'a fly a spaceship with my Jedi precognition and reaction times, wiping out entire wings of enemy fighters. I want to FEEL the force. Makes being dark side that much more satisfying when you slaughter things...
     
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