IWD2: my newbie party

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Raptor im sure your wrong about Int it gives the proper positive modifer to skill points so with 18 you get an extra 4 points and with 16 an extra 3 im certain at least thats how it worked out with my characters(an the wizard even gets more skill points based on the int raises he gets every 4 levels so he gains an extra poinbt every 8.

It is hard to decide whether human or aasimar is better seeing as the feat is pretty useful since sorcerers only get the normal amount and there are sooo many magic related feats. i made mine drow (cause they are soo cool and fun to play and magic resistance RULES) took the xp penalty and then used her for ALL my talking skills so i wouldnt have even been able to min int even with human cause she used more then 2 points per level. You could try doing something like that with sorcerer just choosing aasimar and not drow and then since you need lotsa skills it wont be a waste of ability points. But not sure if you even have enough ability points with aasimar even with drow i was forced to min wis(i know its a bad idea but with divine grace AND will saves the sorcs favourite it didnt matter)and only have 8 str but then i managed to have maxed con and cha aswell as pretty good dex and int so shes a good character. This may be irrelevant to you since your deciding between human and aasimar not drow but i still hope it gives you some help

Btw chavalier paladin spells arent useless even delayed he'll get draw upon holy might which is a great buff spell and iirc it raises con aswell doesnt it?

[ November 03, 2005, 08:59: Message edited by: Goon66 ]

 

"The squatting idea stems from the fact that I'd be gaining XP faster for the other characters. I don't think I'll do it though, it seems so cheesey ...
The Human offers more skills and feats (I can drop my INT to 3 and have better stats), but the Aasamir makes spells harder to resist (a 20 CHA)."

To squat or not to squat ... ah the eternal question.

Anyway, re: sorcerer, I'd suggest a Human for normal mode with large party on your first run through. The +1DC to spells doesn't quite compensate for getting a level ahead as a Human in those circumstances. Higher level spells = yum. With a smaller party, or planning with HoF in mind, then an Aasimar (or preferably Drow) would be better.


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@ goon66 : yes, you are correct about skill points.

 

@Goon+Luiz: Have you guys checked the .2DA files ? Pretty much anything with skillpoints related is halved in iwd2, becose of the limited number of skills in the game.

in PHB its correct as you say: int12 = +1skill, int14 =+2, int16= +3 and int18=+4

But check the .2DA files in IWD2, int12=+1, int16=+2 and thats max. Even picking human only gives you *2* bonus skill points on character generation, instead of the 4 he should have gotten. but one every level after that. Also every class have halved the ammount of skillpoints they should recive. Rouge should get 8skill points per level in PHB, and only 4 in iwd2

I had one helluva jobb to try to edit them to D&D 3.0 standard, and when i did i realised that a human, rouge, with 18 int could pickk all but one skill or something.

 

Ok, only one minor, mostly insignificat change (kinda):

I have had problems getting satifactory stats with my Tiefling Rogue 2/Bard X. I ended up settling with only a 12 starting CHA. This means at levels 4 and 8 I'll advance my CHA to 14, enough to cast the 4th level spells I have access to. I've decided to only advance to level 12 as a Bard, instead of continuing to bump him up in levels. I'll probably start adding Rogue levels at this point, but that possibility of squatting is still there, but I really don't know what I'll be waiting for (maybe a mage level, since he's got a great INT of 20 at the start).

Anyway, I really have no use for a Bard after gaining the final song (I'm only going from 11 to 12 for the bump in BAB and Saves at that level).

The reason I don't think I'll be advancing in Bard levels past 12 is that:

A) The spells really aren't that great for the Bard, I plan on concentrating on buffing spells (no saving throw related, the DC will stink and the selection isn't too good anyway).

B)Any CHA increasing equipment will fall to the Paladin 1/Sorcerer X first, then the Fighter 4/Paladin X second, if there even is any in the game (I've played a few games like this, there probably is). If there is a 3rd good item, I might increase my Bard level again, but I really don't think it'll happen.

 

@ Raptor: yes, the skillpoints based on class (and the humans' racial bonus) are halved from their pen & paper equivalents because there are approximately only half the skills available in IWD2 compared to p&p.

But the INT mod to skillpoints remains correct. Not, as initially said: "Inteligence 12 gives you +1 skill point per level as usual. Inteligence 16 gives you +2 skill points per level, instead of the usual 14 int required for +2."

INT 14 does gives +2 skillpoints, 16=+3, 18=+4, etc, as it should. Test it for yourself.

Non-human rogue with 10 INT starts with 16 skillpoints (base for class of 4 * 4).
Non-human rogue with 18 INT starts with 32 skillpoints ((base for class of 4 + INT mod of 4) * 4).


What .2DA file suggests otherwise?

 

Wow, the fact that skillpoints have been reduced, but the INT modifier remains the same really makes having a higher INT more important.

Too bad my crew has a bunch of dummies ('cept for the Loremaster Rogue/Bard).

Edit: I've finally decided to stick with the last party I presented. I'm at the gate to the Palisade, and am going to turn in for this night (both in game -- it's late and I need to sleep) and IRL. I'll continue during next week. The weekend will probably be booked for me.

 

"Too bad my crew has a bunch of dummies ('cept for the Loremaster Rogue/Bard)"

Well you really only *need* one super skill-monkey.

Looks like a good setup -- strangely it seems quite familiar; I have a feeling it's pretty similar to my very first party of so many, many moons ago. I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with it.

 

Yea though the party isnt ultimate by any means it will likely be more fun then the ultimate parties.

 

And what would those "ultimate" parties consist of?

BTW, I decided to keep on with my Bard levels, and started with a CHA of 14 (the Bard spells I'll choose are buffs, so they don't need to be resisted).

I've decided that, while that I don't see much of a point of a character past the 3rd level of Rogue and the 11th level of Bard, the Bard abilities are greater after this. So I've decided to just continue on as a Bard, and use all my stat bonuses to boost my CHA.

The primary focus of this character was to be a Loremaster type, and be able to identify most of my items. I can accomplish this nicely with a 20 starting INT and maxing my Bard levels and Know (Arcana) and Alchemy skills.

 

Just installed IWD2 again to check this out. and fired up NearInfinity. looked through the 2DA's til i found the file named INTMOD.2DA. Here you can see yourself, copy pasted from that file:

Code:

   LEARN_SPELL	MAX_SPELL_LEVEL MAX_SPELLS_PER_LEVEL	BONUS_PROFICIENCIES
7	35		3		8		-1
8	40		4		9		-1
9	45		4		9		0
10	50		5		10		0
11	55		5		10		0
12	60		6		11              1
13	65		6		11              1
14	70		7		12		1
15	75		7		12		1
16	80		8		13              2
17	85		8		13              2
18	90		9		14		2
19	95		9		14		2

Only added 7-19 since that is the relevant part anyways,and enough to see that it does not increase further than +2 at any int modifier above this anyways.

hopefully the forum codes does not mess up "tab" as it often do.

edit: yes it did... *sigh* copy paste to notepad people.
edit2: trying code tags.

@Shrikant (uhm forgot spelling )

Ignore the "spell related" ones, i belive thats just leftovers from the previous IE games.

[ November 05, 2005, 20:24: Message edited by: raptor ]

 

@raptor

If instead of [ quote ] you used [ code ] you can retain the format, tabs and all.

Also I thought that you couldn't learn/cast any spells at lower than 10Int/Wis/Char whatever. Care to explain what that table means. And take it to 30 please.

 

In short: thats teh table for how INTELIGENCE affects certain things in the IE games. The first ones is regarding spellcasting abilities of mage and other classe susing INT (bard) in the earlier IE games, but should be ignored in iwd2. Since its been reworked etc. the last one "bonus_proficiencies" is new. i havent seen it in any other game. and when testing modifying it i got different amounts skillpoints for characters (also look at the "skill/feat" mod in download section that gives more feats and skills for everyone, i belive he edited same file).

So at int 10 you gain no bonus skillpoints, at int12, you gain +1, and this goes up as far as in 15. and on int 16 you gain +2 skillpoints. and never any more. (checked, its the same in unpatched and patched version of iwd2.)

 

Hey everybody. I've decided to change it up again a little. Please see this post for a rant and details.

So, to summarize:

1) LG Aasamir Fighter 4/Paladin X (might add in 5 Sorcerer levels for buffs, and would love input on that idea).
2) CN Shield Dwarf Fighter 4/Barbarian X
3) CG Dwarf Cleric: Battleguard of Tempus.
4) LG Human Paladin 1/Sorcerer X (main spellcaster).
5) TN Drow Male Rogue 2/Bard 1/Diviner X (added a Bard level so he can sing when nothing else is going on. If the Bard level won't get me past the specialist penalty, I'm going to take one level of the Cleric of Mask, which has complimentary abilities).
6) LN Drow Female Cleric: Dreadmaster of Bane 1/Druid X

I think it's funny that you misspelled "intelligence."

[ November 05, 2005, 23:55: Message edited by: Klorox ]

 

@ Raptor
I have no idea what that table is but i say its WRONG (that or your interpreting it wrong). Since you installed the game go into it click the information button in that record screen(the one you need to press "r" to access) the click on abilities and intelligence. It tells you what each rank in intelligence does including how many additional skill points you get per level. It lists the extra skill points to be equal to the normal ability modifier.

If you still dont believe that go START a REAL GAME and make 2 characters of same class and race and everything the same just give 1 16 INT and the other 18INT (or even 16 and 20 if you choose to try this with drow or tiefling). You SHOULD notice that the one with higher int will get more skill points(though according to you they'll get the same) both starting and every level after(though you can jus see from the starting skill points). If you dont notice this your game is screwed up(that or mine is )

@Klorox
Read the JUPP i think thats what its called cant remember who wrote it but their name starts with J i think. Its on this site not sure where but its a REALLY REALLY indepth guide to character creation. And those parties are IMHO very ULTIMATE the person who made it put a LOT of time and effort into that guide. And this party seems like it should able to easily beat HoF (i never actually used it totaly just took and slightly modified a few characters from it ) But seeing as he has everyone of his tanks with GREAT AC so that pretty much every character has to roll 20 (perfect roll automatic hit) to hit them (even at the end which means AC of 71!!!!) i would assume it makes HoF a lot easier and just with one of his AC chars i no longer need to just use a bunch of summons and spells in HoF but can actually melee most of the time!!! .
There is also another UPP on this site but it is not quite as good and is much too favourable to humans IMO and neglects the skills of drow and deep gnome when used correctly

[ November 06, 2005, 01:56: Message edited by: Goon66 ]

 

Sorc[5] is a good idea. However you might have to take these levels before taking any Paladin levels since Sorc is not an allowed class for any Order.
Just remember to remove your armour and sheild before casting your buffs. What spells do you have in mind for him?

You will probably need Bard[2] for that to happen. Also the first song is nothing much to talk about. Better take that Cleric level instead.

 

The order the levels are taken do not matter when determing if he can continue if paladin class. If he has another level in any class apart from his favoured class he cant advance in paladin levels however he will b able to take level 1 paladin after that paladin class will be unavialable even if the sorcerer levels came before the paladin 1. Thus the only option is to wait for the sorc levels till you no longer want any more paladin levels so that you can just end off as a sorcerer.

I just noticed you wanted a Diviner, why? its one of the worst specialists since it loses evocation where the majority of GREAT mage spells are. Sure hes a backup caster but regardless he should be able to do area of effect spells i think a better class is Transmuter of Enchanter cause they only lose 1 school and neither school is as important as evocation though you would lose wail of the banshee your sorc can cover that

[ November 06, 2005, 04:55: Message edited by: Goon66 ]

 

The idea was to be able to cast spells like Bull's Strength and Mirror Image. I guess Minor Mirror Image is a good 1st level spell, and Sleep will get me through the early game.

Hmmph. Another reason for one Bard level is that I can use Bard-Only items with him (I'm assuming there must be some in the game, there were in all the other Bioware games I played). Also, if you're saying I need a second level, then I'll need an 11 CHA at least, or an 11 WIS for the Cleric. Just something to keep in mind....

Thanks for the advice! I selected Diviner because I figured that I wouldn't need Evocation spells, since I plan on having my Sorcerer select mostly spells from that school.

I'm not quite set with this party yet, so I really appreciate all this input and feedback. Keep it coming!

 

Goon66, What The **** are you talking about??

Paladin's favoured class limitation only kicks in after you begin taking Paladin levels. You could take Cleric/Fighter/Monk/Ranger/Rouge/Sorcerer/Wizard levels for all I care before taking Paladin levels and it would all be fine. Only once you begin taking Paladin levels does the limitation on taking other class-levels come into play.

 

I checked about the paladin thing and it seems i was wrong . I was sure i wasnt but i checked n i was wrong and im sorry for doubting you Shrikant.

Btw Klorox about diviner though the booklet says it loses evocation in the game it says it loses conjuration im not sure what happened but yea im not sure which it actually is . But since your likely goin to dual class to another spellcaster to access all spells i guess it wont matter. In that case choose transmuter they are the only ones with a special almost quest like thing

[ November 07, 2005, 06:15: Message edited by: Goon66 ]

 

NP, Goon66. From sources other than the Manual (which has more than a few errors):
. .Spell school -\/- Opposing schools

. . .Abjuration -\/- Transmutation, Illusion
. . Conjuration -\/- Evocation
. . . Divination -\/- Conjuration
. Enchantment -\/- Evocation
. . . Evocation -\/- Divination, Conjuration
. . . . . Illusion -\/- Necromancy, Abjuration
. .Necromancy -\/- Illusion, Enchantment
Transmutation -\/- Necromancy, Abjuration

. . . . . . will resist the urge to spoil . . . . . . must resist . . .
Yeah, take Transmuter. *phew*