Israel vs Lebanon: Deliberate Targetting of UN Positions, Red Cross?

Have I, at any point, indicated that the militants are really *really* few in number?
What happens in Lebanon, the Palestinian territories... or Iraq is what has Muslims radicalized, which finds expression in acceptance and support of the extremists among them. Oh look, Hizbollah just went from being regarded with suspicion to everybody's hero. How have they managed to strengthen the wrong party again...

I would think that argument has been made so often, it comes dripping out of the ears.

 

Life's complicated enough. You can always take liberties with my word if it helps.

 

Very good point Dendri. One day Europe may wake up and realize they have been invaded and lost the war before it even started.

 

If the US dont want to go the same way you should get rid of lal those nasty hispanics as soon as possible. Dont you think Snook? Maybe put them in camp where they can work for their keep until they drop so you get some use of them worthless darker skinned humans.

 

BTA, they will be unlike us in all but names.

Snook, people are awake. The problem is there's no democratic solution for collapsing populations or districts of cities that are no longer part of the nation. What to do?

The will to survive is overriden by guilt. I mean look at joacqin.

 

If you mean what you said...

 

Oh really? I do not deny that integration of certain groups of immigrants in Europe has been less than stellar but what to do about that? The only thing we can do is try to work through it and talk with people. Just saying how horrible it is and how we are doomed doesnt really help and the issue isnt nearly as dire as some make it out. It is only that dire in the paranoid xenophobic minds of some people.

 

@Martaug: Unless you've studied and converted to Islam I don't think you have any authority on which cities are holy to muslims and which cities are not. There is a reason that the category we use for Christians, Muslims, and Jews is "Judeo Christian". they share the same holy cities. The only exception is Mekkah, which is only holy to muslims.

The concept of "Palestinian" refugees is no lie. Palestinian is a word which currently refers to Arabs who live in Palestine/Israel. It was the Israelis living in Israel that adopted a new name. Your assertion that the Israel played no part in kicking Palestinians out of Israel is also very widely disputed.....and not just in Palestine. It is a documented fact that Israel, in fact, pushed many Palestinians out of Israel during that little debacle. They may not have pushed out all the Palestinians who left, but it is clear that Israel was behind many of those extractions. I'll grant that more Palestinians left willingly than were kicked out, but I question why that makes a difference. After having thousands of your brethren forcibly ejected from your homeland, you aren't exactly going to feel welcome, anymore.

 

You'll have to excuse me if I'm a little skeptical of that. Judaism and Christianity both trace back to Jesus and Jerusalem, but Islam does not AFAIK. They started with Mohammed(sp?), Mecca, and the other M city. So where does Jerusalem factor in? I'm sure there is some explanation, or noone would have even taken it seriously and just awarded Jerusalem to Israel, but I've yet to see it.

 

Judaism does not trace back to Jesus, Felinoid. Jews at the time thought he was, at worse, a(nother) charlatan. At best, they thought him hopelessly misguided.

Regarding Islam, if you are familiar with the old and new testaments of the bible, when you read the Koran, you'll notice that many of the passages are kind of familiar. That's because much of what is in the Koran comes lock, stock and barrel from the old testament, and a few non-cannonical early Christian works also show up in the Koran. Islam, like Christianity, finds its roots in Judaism. In fact, Mohammad said that as "People of the Book", Christians and Jews were not required to convert to Islam and should be left unmolested regarding their religion.

 

Contradiction #1. They do trace back that far if they existed at that time and place. Islam does not (started in ~600 AD, IIRC).

Irrelevant. Unless there's some third nation representing Christianity that's trying to get ahold of Jerusalem that I don't know about. And it still doesn't address why the Palestinians think they have any claim over Jerusalem, unless it being important to a parent religion (but not your own) gives them more claim than the parent religion itself. What in the Muslim religion makes it important to them? What event of significance, what decree of their prophet, what in their history makes them want Jerusalem for themselves?

Almost contradiction #2. Why then do they seek to take a holy site from the Jews?

 

@Felinoid

Jerusalem is a holy city for muslims because Al-Aqsa mosque is considered to be the location of the ascent of Muhammad and one of the three holy mosques.

 

Christians never fell under the "People of the Book" classification. Also, IIRC, Jews enjoyed far more freedoms in Mulsim cities in the early part of last millenium that did Christians. Christians, who were trying to expand their ranks from the same pool of potential believers as the Muslims, were seen as competition to be eliminated.

 

Fel, saying Islam only dates back to Mohommed is like saying Christianity only dates back to Jesus. Just like there were Christians before the coming of Jesus, there were Muslims before Muhammed. As has been said, many stories presented in the Koran are the same as those in the Old Testament. In fact, to cliam that Christianity and Islam only started in the AD years would mean that there would be no need of Christians to even have an Old Testament, and half the Koran would be irrelevant as well.

There is no doubt that of the three religions, Judaism is by far the oldest, but all three religions trace their lineage through Abraham, so there is a common link.

As for the holiness of the site, the Muslims have the Al-Aqsa mosque there. The Jews have the crying wall as the last remenant of the Temple of David, and just a few miles away in Bethlehem, you'll find the Church of the Nativity which is considered by the Christians to be built (and later rebuilt after being burned down) on the site of Jesus's birthplace. It's definitely holy ground for all three religions.

 

@AFI:

How can this be, since Christianity is based on the acceptance of salvation through belief in Jesus, and Islam is based on Mohammed's teachings? Perhaps you mean that there were people following the basic tenets of these faiths, and different sects spun off when these prophets arose? That I can believe, but I don't see how it's possible that people could ever have followed a leader who hadn't been born yet.

 

They believed in the coming of Jesus as was foretold by other prophets. Obviously, they probably didn't refer to themselves as Christians as such - but due to the miracles written about in the Old Testament and the Koran, it is believed that the God performing these things wasn't the Jewish god only, but the Christian/Muslim God as well. I don't think Christians look at the Old Testament as strictly a historical account.

If you look at the account of Jesus's birth, the angel that appears certainly makes it sound that people were expecting/hoping for such an event. If there was no following of Christianity prior to this, why were there any Christians at all? Why didn't everyone who was Jewish (in regards to religion, not necessarily ethnicity) remain Jewish? Or perhaps a better question is why didn't more people following Judaism all switch over at that time?

And I don't think it's appropriate to say Jesus means the same thing to Christians as Mohommed means to Muslims. Yes, they both were teachers, but Mohommed was not considered the Son of God.

 

Wow, I sure did touch a nerve with Joacqin. To answer your question I fully expect over the next couple of elections to see some dramatic changes in immigration and welfare. People are already starting to discuss changing the rules on citizenship to do away with "anchor babies". I'm guessing soon after will be the elimination of welfare for non-citizens. You are correct and that many Americans are starting to look at Europe as a wake up call for what uncontrolled immigration can lead to.

I believe that these issues will lead to the downfall of the Republican party for the next few years. The Republicans taking the position of amnesty on immigration will cause them to lose many conservatives which will help moderate Democrats.

As to your suggestion of putting people in camps so we can get some work out of them. I'm ashamed for you. A favorite quote of mine is.