1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Is NWN2 A Gaming Success?

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights 2' started by Fluff-n-Oncense, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. Fluff-n-Oncense Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2007
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG] Still on my first run through the game but my early experience is not encouraging me a lot. Seems to me that the developers have put most of their effort into eye candy and other techie stuff. There seems to be very little investment into the game itself and the plot line, environment (ability to run a large number of diverse and unrelated side quests)and player encouragement to explore seems to be missed almost entirely. Most of the game world is just eye candy - you cannot interact with it so don't bother. The only active patrs of the game world support a very narrow interpreation of the game itself so there is almost no real RPG possible.

    Is this just an XBox game converted across to PC or am I being too harsh?
     
  2. CĂșchulainn Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,956
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't view it as a success. Online game reviewers have given it rave reviews, were as user reviews on websites such as Amazon.co.uk give it 1 or 2 stars on average.

    I got so frustrated with the game that I stopped playing after the 2nd day. Wish I had got Medieval II: Total War instead.

    Anyone wanna swap? :shake:
     
  3. ToddMcF2002 Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    0
    Too harsh.

    How much does it matter? NWN1 was in the same boat with its Original Campaign and look how that turned out. Official and user modules were pretty successful.

    I keep wondering why people criticize NWN2 as a game for shortcomings that are really specific to its introductory module. Since its a farcry better than NWN1 OC so its actually better positioned for success in the longrun.

    Your post reminds me of the shortsightedness of ToEE users that ultimately killed the best DnD module platform ever written.
     
  4. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,120
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    493
    Gender:
    Male
    The bugs and Atari's unwillingness to pay to have them fixed is what killed ToEE. NWN1's only salvation was the gigantic community interest and the fact that BioWare is still patching the game 5 years after release.

    NWN2 has maybe 10% as much community interest in it as the original NWN has had, and the support will probably end one patch after the first (and last?) expansion is out the door.

    You have to realize that RPG developers are starting to understand (again) that the vast majority of their customers are single-player-only players. The noticeable and vocal community on online forums (BioWare's included) and dedicated gaming sites altogether probably amounts to less than 10% of people who've bought the game. And NWN2 was geared towards this segment which has been ignored in the recent years. However, ultimately it's failed to satisfy the majority of both single and multi player customers, so its success in the long run is dubious at best.

    In my opinion, only updating the original NWN engine to 3.5e and improving the graphics would have been an infinitely better decision than what's been done for NWN2. With HotU and the later premium modules BioWare finally got it right. But instead of continuing to perfection, Obisidian has started the whole process from scratch again, only in a significantly worse position than BioWare.
     
  5. Equester Gems: 18/31
    Latest gem: Horn Coral


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    actually as far as i can see, the people who generally voice their unsatification with this game are the pw players, the vast majory dont go online at all, neither to play nor to complain or voice any opinion, so i guess it really depends on the modding comunity and how big the sales of an expansion is.

    because nwn2 has as far as i know gone gold, which contradicts the massive critic it gets online.

    as far as i can see, the OC of nwn2 is far superior to that of nwn1, but the bugs really needs a fixing.
     
  6. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,120
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    493
    Gender:
    Male
    Going gold means shipping the gold master to production facilities, so I believe you're thinking of something else here... As far as sales are concerned, I'd really love to see the figures. But considering the reviewer hype the second time over has been only slightly lessened, I'm sure the sales were still very good.
     
  7. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,319
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    218
    Gender:
    Male
    I enjoyed NWN2 much more than NWN1 (which I liked).

    You know, I NEVER had a real spell caster in NWN1 just because of the terrible party restrictions, so I'm sure I missed out on a lot. I think the closest I got was Deekin in HotU. In NWN2, I found the party so much more fun to play with, it improved the experience immensely.

    But I guess that's just my preference; I don't really like the single-person-against-the-world type games as much. I played Morrowind for a while, but the lack of focus and my own limits in time made the game pretty boring to me, so I never finished it (or probably got very far at all).
     
  8. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    1
    I believe NWN2 was a flop due of these reasons:

    1) The engine was too inefficient. I have a modern computer, yet it still struggled to get the thing work decendly. It didn't feel too reliable and secure, but rather shaky instead.

    2) The story and characters didn't feel interesting at all. Maybe I'm spoiled or something, but I prefer characters like the ones seen in Planescape. First time *any* game has *ever* offered a succubus as a playable character.

    3) My favorite class is still all souped-up: summoner. Unlike in BG2, all the summons stay only for a minimal time and are basically ignored by the AI. Which made me feel infinitely disappointed with the new rule-set (for the second time, after testing IWD2).

    So in conclusion: shaky, unreliable, uninteresting, and disappointing. A flop.
     
  9. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2003
    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes Received:
    0
    @Wordplay: I dunno about the rest but about no. 3, you realise that the reduced summons are a result of 3.5e rule changes and not necessarily Obsidian's fault, right?
     
  10. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    1
    But I can still blame Obsidian of choosing a bad rule-set and not tweaking them. ;)

    Not that it matters which company is to blame. It does nothing to the game. It's a pity too, since NWN2 is one of those games that could easily be modified into a competitive product.
     
  11. Master Leo Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    2
    the major problem that i have with this game, is that it doesn't allow ANY player initiative at all

    basically, you just follow the story from start to finish, with minimal branching

    taverns are practically empty, each section of neverwinter has a dozen or more houses, but you can't break into them at all

    if we look at NPC's, they range from really well thought out (khelgar, sand) to simply awful (grobnar), and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that their story lines have been cut (you can't finish qara's story, romances are weak)

    graphics look good if you have the latest computer, but most people will happily disable shadows and water reflections since they totally kill the frame rate
    ironically, from what i recall, obsidian put a lot of effort into eyecandy, but most users will prefer to disable it (and indeed, the 1.03 patch disabled armor reflections as well)

    then there is bugs, etc
    i could go on forever

    obviously the game has some good sides as well, namely many classes to choose from, and there is quite a lot of dialogue options to pick, although most of them lead to the same outcome

    there is also an option, to play the chaotic/evil or lawful/good path during the game, which means you want to finish it at least two times to see it all

    and of course, the multiplayer option, although it seems the game won't quite reach the popularity of NWN 1 in that respect, seeing multiplayer has a lot of unresolved issues
    it's important that obsidian releases a good patch or two in the shortest possible time
     
  12. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    54
    It seems it's getting better though... I wonder if people would wait long enough. That doomed a few very good games imo - practically all of Troika's RPGs, which were imo all very good.
     
  13. Fluff-n-Oncense Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2007
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmmmmmmm . Touched a nerve I think. I guess your opinion of NWN2 depends on your background and what you are looking for in the game. I started as a table-top D&D'er and progressed through BG1 & 2 plus the raft of similar PC games released over the last 5 years or so. I am not a fan of clicking buttons. As a DM I would not be happy running a game that had such a limited game story and narrowly restricted set of tactics or experiences as presented by NWN2 - perhaps though the previous comment is correct - this is just the opening module and we can look forward to mods with more substantial content.
     
  14. ToddMcF2002 Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    0
    I sure hope so. There come a point where publishers will stop funding complex and risky RPG's altogether since the target audience is far too critical and vocal. People read threads like this and make purchasing decisions accordingly. Bugs or not ToEE was killed by an overcritical public even though the game is perfectly playable
    with the current patches and without C08 mods.

    Sadly NWN2 may suffer the same fate.

    I hope everyone likes action RPG's....
     
  15. Wordplay Gems: 29/31
    Latest gem: Glittering Beljuril


    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2002
    Messages:
    3,453
    Likes Received:
    1
    Oh, I thought about that too. In fact, for a moment I thought it would be the best side of NWN2, since I like to create stuff I would like to play myself. Unfortunately... the engine rendered everything so black that I couldn't see any details, much less design maps. :nolike:

    I'm not sure either will the editor allow content-creators to edit the rule-set. E.g: those ridicilously short duration times of summons or how the summons are treated by enemy AI. If it would, it would be worth taking a second look.
     
  16. Yaballa Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello, I'll answer your question from a module builder's perspective.

    No, NWN2 is not a gaming success. The NWN2 toolkit editor is seriously flawed in terms of usability and performance. I decided to stay with the original NWN.

    P.S. Chances that it will become a gaming success depend on the fact how large their budget is. I doubt that it's *that* large ;)
     
  17. Man_Solo Gems: 1/31
    Latest gem: Turquoise


    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nein!
    This is more a gaming disaster than a gaming success, with more wrong than right, this isn't even a decent game. I maybe extra harsh on rpg's but its oly becasue i expect the best from them, this is hardly a proper rpg, its more a Make believe free roam/ but actually immensley linear game. Linearity and rpg do not go together. Where all the sidequests at? anyone seen any in game characters with depth, or in depth relationships? BG 2 it is then! Again... its been like five years!
     
  18. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG] I'm with BTA - I really liked NWN2 a lot, much more than NWN1. If the storyline and characters from Planescape are your only standards for an RPG, then yes, NWN2 is not as interesting, nor are its main characters. But which RPG is as good in those respects as Planescape? and that game is already over seven years old!

    As far as recent RPGs, Elder Scrolls IV is still the best, if you are looking for an open-ended RPG. With its add-ons, Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles, one can have three major plotlines running at once, plus a butt-load of side-quests.

    Nevertheless, NWN2 gets a big thumbs-up, IMO. :thumb:
     
  19. Equester Gems: 18/31
    Latest gem: Horn Coral


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Nwn 2 has a huge fanbase, an expansion is coming, the bugs are being fixed slowly but surely. several huge mods are being made for it and so on. its a solid succes.

    the fun part is, the place I see most critic of it is here at SP, which seems like this community have stagnated, and is stuck in bg2 and iwd. I agree that Planescape at least was original in many aspects. Bg1 wasn't and neither was bg2, they just had well fleshed out stories.

    to does of you who both like nwn2 and planescape check out this upcoming fanmade triology at www.roguedao.com
     
  20. Ironhawk Skylord

    Ironhawk Skylord If a tree kills alone in the forest, does it make

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    11
    Well NWN2 has sold over 3 million copies now, so I guess some people don't agree with the consensus here at SP....

    I started playing the game just after christmas. Nice present by the way. Patch 1.03 was available there, so I never ran into any gamebreaking bugs.

    Now, my gamerig has seen better days, but with each patch the game just run more smoothly and I have no problems using the toolset. Actually with patch 1.04 and 1.05 the graphics has improved tremendously and is beautiful on my old gamerig.

    I agree with Equester about this community seems like stagnated. It looks like every game has to be compared with the BG series or PS:T.

    And while other forums like GameFaqs, GameBanshee and Thieves-Guild.Net has produced walkthroughs, guides and so on, SP hasn't.

    The funny part is that, if looking through old posts on NWN1, peoples opinions were the same as on NWN2. And now NWN1 is suddenly great.

    As for those who thinks that the BG series was original, you might want to read Wikipedias list of RPG cliches:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game_clich%C3%A9s

    Don't get me wrong, I love the BG series but they wasn't "original"

    As for bugs, I am still puzzled why people tend to forget that the BG series and PS:T still have bugs who isn't fixed unless you use community mods like Baldurdash, G3 Fixpack and so on.

    It is not a new trend that a game has bugs. Is it acceptable? Well not really. And Taluntains suggestion about buying the game later when the prices are right and expansions, patches and so on is there, is probably the way to go.

    But I really don't understand why BG series and PS:T are such holy cows that people forget the games are full of bugs.

    As for NWN2 being linear, yeah it is. But so was PS:T and the IWD series. Linear or non-linear is a matter of taste. Those who only like non-linear will certainly not enjoy NWN2, it is Morrowwind, Oblivion, the BG series and so on, that rocks their boat.

    Personally I like both. I really like when every game is different, with different rules and strategy I have to adapt to.

    Is there sidequests in NWN2? Yeah quite a lot actually. As usual you have to look for them, but they are there.

    [ April 26, 2007, 13:00: Message edited by: Ironhawk Skylord ]
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.