Imoen Romance?

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She's not really even your half sister as hermit09 said and she never thought of the PC that way because they have been freinds since childhood, but that could change

[This message has been edited by sorvo (edited March 28, 2002).]

 

yes an imoen 'relationship' is being made by a guy called quitch.. u can got hold of him over at the black isle or pbg forums.. see the link in my sig..

this is a brief description in his own words..

"Imoen Relationship: Fleshes out the relationship between Imoen and the PC. Play anyway you see fit, though Imoen has a mind of her own."

--

B20's BG2 and ToB Links Central - http://www.geocities.com/jolls767/



[This message has been edited by B20 (edited March 30, 2002).]

 

I remember reading a very well-written walkthrough of SoA and then later ToB with a solo mage called Elmonster (good name he haad 19s in 4 stats). Written by a guy called Kevin Dorner (I think). Anyway, it is written up as a story and although he is soloing all the way he still 'talks' to other NPCs especially Imoen and Sarevok and quite vehemently states several times that they are NOT siblings. He ends with a touching scene of Elmonster and Imoen going off into the sunset together, to find a better future and love.

So the idea was already there all it needed was a romance mod.

 

Bah who cares if she's your sister, she hot!

 

Now, THAT response worries me Z-layrex.

 

this topic is macabre.

here you go z-layrex: www.adult-incest.com enjoy!

(what's more worrying- that i went out of my way to find that site or that it even exists?)

 

OK, Incest I can understand, it has happened before. But using an acronym for real life is just bad.



Incidentally, do Sarevok and you have the same mother?

 

myself, quitch and others had a debate about this over at PBG.. these were my conclusions..

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- i dispute the fact that there is an element of debate left open in the series as to the exact relationship between u and imoen.. if it wasnt obvious during bg1 it certainly was half way through bg2.. she calls u her 'little brother' for gods sake.. what does that say about her feelings for u?.. that and the infamous viconia dialogue.. i think the designers have made this quite clear and imo it would go against the basic fabric of the game..

- i would also dispute the idea that 'u murder people in bg2 so incest is nothing'.. good aligned characters kill people/whatever in bg2 to destroy evil.. they eliminate those who lack in morality and who bring suffering to others.. they dont embrace it.. as for evil aligned characters.. well thats obviously different..

- my view is there is no doubt that (morally at least) a romance with imoen would be classified as incest.. however i suppose this could leave a door open (controversially.. but i think thats what this whole thing is about anyway.. controversy) for evil aligned characters to possibly seduce/exploit her.. whatever u want to call it.. as the actual logistics of how bhaal would copulate with those who carried his children is a mater of debate.. 'the taint' etc.. so i guess this would be deemed as 'good taste'..

- i think there are 2 types of people who would look forward to an imoen 'relationship'.. those who fell in love with her back in bg1 (perhaps because it was the first female or any npc u meet) and that could never come to terms with the implications of what happens in bg2.. and there are those who seek greater interaction with imoen because they see her (as intended) as their sister and wanted there to be more of a sibling relationship perhaps..

- indeed i think quitch is being very clever with this whole thing.. in fact like i said early one of the reasons for this is (i think) the controversy that will come with it.. it certainly will gain him a lot of exposure and cause a lot of debate within the cRBG community.. im not saying we all take it as seriously as ken baker.. but it certainly will raise a few eyebrows..

- i see the mod has been change to imoen 'relationship' which i suppose is a little more ambiguous.. i was thinking maybe calling it 'further imoen interactions mod' or something.. lol.. that sounds a bit crap.. but u know what i mean.. i see quitch is goin to make it so that the romance bit will really be up to u.. but i would suggest perhaps making the romance not available to good and lawful aligned characters.. my view is that unless the romance occurred with a large amount of oppression that imoen would give u a slap in the face and run a mile if u tried it on with her.. but thats just my take on it..

- and as urrgrath said its only a cRPG.. its only a bit of fun.. so do whatever u like..

--

[Would you drop the "u" thing? It's in our rules that no form of l33t is allowed. Spell you like everyone else.] -Tal

[This message has been edited by Taluntain (edited March 31, 2002).]

 

how about this guys:

let's all assume that imoen is truly your half-sister, and you guys simply feel that love conquers all. both you and imoen rode into the sunset together with hearts as one. a few months later, imoen bore you your firstborn. and you and imoen lived happily ever after.... until, one night when the moon was full and you we're all gathered together celebrating your child's 16th birthday, you and imoen's fruit suddenly becomes a full-pledge slayer, and starts a rampage killing everyone in sight (and bhaal, wherever he is, looks on with great delight.) bhaal's two halves have come together to form a whole. a terror that would soon consume atkhala and it's neighboring territories. blood and tears flowed for years as this was the lust of the fearsome young slayer. until.... out comes a new hero to stop it.

you guys think this could be a beginning for let's say bg3 or bg4 (with you as the new hero and probably another child of bhaal).

btw, don't be too harsh on me for this one. i'm just sharing my piece and having a little fun. besides, i don't think i'd play the next bg series if they actually have this kind of story.

 

Imoen and the PC weren't really raised as brother and sister. They were both wards of Gorion, meaning they were more like pupils than foster children. The PC states that he/she thought of Gorion as a father, but I don't remember him/her ever saying he/she thought of Imoen as a sister. Others inferred it, but it could be that he thinks of her as a best friend and maybe a soulmate. Lots of times childhood "best friends" develop romantic feelings and have a very deep and loving relationship result. After all, they have seen each other at their best and at their worst, and they both risked not just their lives but their souls for each other. Imoen even offers to give up a piece of her soul to resurrect Sarevok.

Now, as far as the Bhaal essence goes, you could technically consider them half-siblings. However, divine essence doesn't really operate the same way as genetic parenting. Most polytheistic pantheons had their gods and goddesses being both from the same parent(s) and married with children of their own. Zeus and Hera spring to mind. Odin and Frigg were brother and sister also. Another point is, the stigma against "incest" is a modern thing, resulting from the increased chance of deformities from the pairing. It should also be noted that an increase in desirable traits is also present, and used in animal breeding in a manner called "line breeding" where say you have a really fast horse and you mate it with another fast horse. Then you mate it with the child of those two horses after it reaches maturity, then with the child of that pairing, and so forth until that horse is dead. The horse that is born at the end of all that will have a signifigantly higher chance of being very much faster than the first horses.

Nobles are notorious for inbreeding and as a result most nobles are in one way or another related to each other, even in recent history the royal families of Spain, Great Britain, France, and Russia at the minimum were all cousins in some manner or another. In a setting like Forgotten Realms, most if not all of the people wouldn't bat an eye when they heard that a bride and groom were cousins or even closer kinship. Nobles and royals would even be known to marry their daughters if their wives died and they had no male heirs. So really, an Imoen romance wouldn't be far fetched.

I would think as any romance mod out there, it'd be your choice to download it or not if one was made. If it's being done as is sounds, where it's your choice whether you just have a closer and more in depth sibling relationship or a romance, then I think it's a very good idea. Personally, I was very disappointed in how little dialogue Imoen has after being rescued in the way of banter. She said a little to the PC that I remember, and in ToB I remember Aerie pulling Imoen off to ask questions about the PC out of his hearing range, and a few conversations between Saravok and Imoen, but other than that I can't think of a single conversation that she has with someone other than the PC. Even if all the mod does is add a lot more banter between Imoen and the other party members, I would be happy. That being said, I'll end this signifigantly too long reply. teehee

 

Well, no. The ban of incest has occured repeatedly and independently in most cultures. Even very primitive ones (certain tribes in New Guinea etc.).

As far as the royals are concerned - well if you think there are no ill efects: most of them have haemophillia and will you just LOOK at Pronce Charles.

And more to the point: could you roleplay a romance with your sister?

(BTW I always wondered about something - Adam and Eve were the first humans, and they had three (or was it two) sons - AND THEN WHAT? How do we go from there?

 

You know, I just looked at the BG intro of Imoen. She didn't come to Candlekeep until 10 years after the PC did, and even then she spent more time with Winthrop then she did with Gorion. I'm guessing Gorion was more of a teacher to Imoen than a father figure. So there might be some brother-sister feelings there but I think it's not far-fetched to see their relationship as more of a friendship, which could blossom into romance. The only true brother-sister stuff in it is that they're both children of Bhaal, which barely applies as a sibling status. I tell ya, that Bhaal must have been one busy god... and a rabbit... what could possess Bhaal to shag a rabbit? lol He must have been drunk out of his mind. heh

 

I sdhall throw in a few thoughts.

The incest being banned thing, it is based on the whole bad genetic stuff probablity increasing. In modern day, ewith very efficent birth control and abortions, incest would not be a problem.

But that is just sorta-scientific thingamajing.

I personally think that Immy and the main char could actually be a couple, with the whole childohood FRIENDS thing.

Ara
(Disregard anything if you like, I am way too tired to think straight)

 

As mentioned, it is easy enough to consider Bhaal as irrelevant to any consideration of 'family ties' if you really want. There are enough discrepancies in Imoen's background between BG, BG2, and ToB that one could easily explain it away.

As for incest being a modern concept, that's completely untrue. The scientific reasoning behind it is largely modern, but the taboo itself is ancient and universal. There is absolutely NO societies known to to the anthropological record that do not have a general incest taboo. A few societies have no such taboo for a very limited subset of the society (generally royalty), but that's it. Those exceptions almost always occur because the relevant caste is considered divine and 'ordinary mortals' are unacceptable spouses, leaving no real alternatives.

The degree of consanguinity necessary to trigger the incest taboo varies, but it includes the 'nuclear' family in all cases. First cousins are acceptable in some societies, often with distinctions between cross and parallel cousins being made.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

I suggest the reading of Sophocles' Oedipus Cycle, particularly Oedipus Rex. There should be no questions on the acceptability of incest of any kind.

 

vukodlak,

adam and eve have many offspring. but cain (the eldest) and abel (the second) were the most popular. but if you read the book of genesis in the bible, particularly chapter 4, verses 13-17. you'll find that there were already quite a lot of them (grown up siblings). some of these siblings are pro abel and some are with cain. it is also mentioned that cain had a wife (and i'm sure it's one of his sisters). after the death of abel, at verse 25, another son of adam was also mentioned, seth. in chapter 5 verse 4, it was mentioned that adam had many more sons and daughters.

one reason why adam and eve's daughters were never really mentioned was (i think) because in the olden days (the biblical days) women were generally looked down, they were not given any real importance (of course there are exeptions but generally that is the common practice). and with regards to the incest issue, during adam and eve's time, do they really have a choice? in fact there was no such thing in their time.

 

SlimShogun,

Examples like that are worthless in a general context. All it establishes is that it wasn't acceptable to the Greeks. And even then, it was only unacceptable to Greek mortals. Many of the Greek gods and goddesses were involved in, or the product of, incestuous relationships.

Aloha
Vormaerin

 

I managed to keep the Girdle of Sex change for BG1. Will that affect romances?

By the way I think you should be able to romance Imoen.

Buddas Hand

 

It shouldn't affect the romances if you use it after the character joins the party. The romance system checks for race/gender match when the NPC first joins the group and that's it. Its not designed to account for the things like the Girdle or any imported effect.

Aloha
Vormaerin