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I always said domestic cats were only good for target practice!

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Darkwolf, Apr 13, 2005.

  1. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    It mostly depends on where you live. I don't mean area of the country, but your environment as in city, suburban or rural. If he lives on a several hundred acre ranch, and his closest neighbor is a few miles away, it is probably completely legal. I have no idea about the specifics of DW's living area, but just from the description he's giving of the wildlife and property, I'm guessing he doesn't live on a 0.2 acre lot in the suburbs.

    If he's like me, and his closest neighbor is around 50 feet away, it is most definitely illegal. I live on a corner. The guy behind me is about 50 feet away from me, the neighbor to my left is also about 50 feet away from me, and there is a house across the street from the front of the house, and a house across the street from the right side of the house. For me there is no where that I could shoot anything where there wouldn't be a reasonable chance of the bullet going on to someone else's property, and I'd be charged with reckless endangerment.

    [ April 15, 2005, 20:08: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]
     
  2. Darkwolf Gems: 18/31
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    For the record, I have more land than the average person, and I do not live in what people would think of as the city proper, but my area was recently incorporated, so the discharge of a firearm (as well as burning tree trimmings and shooting off fireworks) is against the law. This is forcing me to either consider a high-powered pellet gun (which aren't as effective or accurate, and could lead to my injuring a cat rather than a clean kill) or resorting to the capture and stake out for the coyote methods that I have mentioned before. I much prefer the instant death method, but I have to admit that civilization is creeping into my area, and I would have had to change tactics soon any way. Luckily, I haven't seen any cats in my back yard since last year anyway, so hopefully it won't be an issue anytime soon.
     
  3. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

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    One in a while for me is fifteen minutes three times a day. I have owned a dog my entire life so I know, I've also had several cats and allways kept them inside for the most part only letting them out in a leash.

    Why should I advocate a natural approach? If you want to prevent your cat from being shot you keep it inside and the propability of getting your cat shot if it runs out is much less than it running to a road and being overrun by a car, neither case would be much fun.
     
  4. Ravynn Gems: 6/31
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    Blackthorne: I am pretty sure you don't need a license to shoot "pest" animals like rats, gophers, crows, squirrels, or the like. Besides, it is obvious that you do not live in the south, where a little detail like not having a license does not stop a person from shooting whatever he wants. I live out in the country and I always hear my neighbors, I guess, shooting at things at night. I know I lost at least one dog to these a**holes. My dad and I trap and shoot, with a BB gun, squirrels because they keep breaking our bird feeders and are generally nuisances, and we have never gotten a hunting license. My point is, not having a license will not stop someone from shooting your pet and then claiming they thought it was feral, after all, collars can fall off, people make mistakes, and more :bs: like that. That's not to say something shouldn't be done. These animals deserve humane deaths, maybe trapping and euthanizing in problem areas, or neutering them, though that still runs the risk of a rabid cat infecting a child or pet. I think if this law passes, there must be some restrictions.
     
  5. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    Why does a creature that isn't human deserve humane treatment?
     
  6. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    [​IMG]
    Obviously not if it's the domesticated kind. Any kind of domesticated animal relies on humans to provide nourishment.

    Maybe where you live. I don't know a single person who would own a pet rat, whereas I know of literally hundreds of people who own cats. No pet stores here have rats, either. Just because something is available in stores doesn't mean a lot of people actually have it.

    And it never occured to you that there are easier ways of scaring cats away, all of them mentioned above? Amazing...

    I think this is really the root of your problem. You're acting as if the cats are personally insulting you by walking on your land, as if they're doing it on purpose just to annoy you. Which seems totally ridiculous to me, but then, I've got a good feeling by now how overly protective some Americans are of their land, so it doesn't really surprise me.

    As for responsibility, here the unwritten agreement goes both ways. Neighbours' cats can walk on our land without having to fear being killed, and ours can walk on theirs the same way. Which, I think, is the only reasonable and common sense approach. As I said, cats work out their own territorial issues much more effectively.

    Those cats who have owners don't need to fear any of the above, so it's hardly much of an argument. And we're really only discussing such cats. No one is arguing in favour of keeping the population of real feral cats up. We're discussing the threat such a law would represent to ANY cat, feral or not.

    Anyway, I think I've repeated myself here for like the 3rd time now...

    Those who would really benefit from a law like this are people like Darkwolf, who already own guns, licences (or not, and, as pointed out, it's not much of an issue if they don't), and already kill cats. It's not like anyone would go buy a gun and get a licence and learn to shoot just for the sake of cats. The existing gun owners are pretty much the only segment affected here.

    So have I, and I'd say I know better, considering I also know that different breeds of dogs require different amounts of time outside, and that some breeds of dogs are completely incapable of being kept indoors for more than short periods of time without serious consequences, psychological and otherwise. Not to mention that the majority of people use dogs to keep watch, so by definition these dogs need to be outside to guard the house.

    No, not really. As I pointed out, spayed cats stay near the house so the chance of them being run over by a car are pretty much nil. The chances of a trigger-happy neighbour killing them would be much higher. Of course, if I had neighbours that would openly admit and warn other neighbours that they shoot cats, I'd keep my own inside, but that's not very likely to happen. The people who kill cats usually do it in such a way that the owner never knows, the cat just disappears one day.
     
  7. Arifirh Gems: 10/31
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    You've got it backwards. *We're* the ones who should be being humane. We're the humans - it's a case of living up to our name.
     
  8. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Actually, my understanding is yes you do if you're using a firearm. But my understanding is also that you typically don't need a license to hunt on your own land.
    First, then it doesn't matter if cats are removed from the protected species list at all then does it? You can go ahead and shoot them already.

    Second, that doesn't change the fact that if you do so on someone else's land you are acting illegally, and if you shot someone's pet, or a protected species and someone saw you, you could be brought up on charges.
     
  9. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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    I suppose...but, while I'm quite hypocritical about certain things, I'm not going to be hypocritical about humane treatment of animals: I eat a lot of beef and pork. I am familiar with the process of industrialized slaughter that provides me with beef and pork, and, well, it ain't humane.

    I can't demand other people be humane to some critters when I directly support a system that isn't humane to others. *shrug*
     
  10. Warrior of the World

    Warrior of the World Questing through space

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    There used to be a cat in our garden, and it ate our birds. So I chased it away if I happened to see it. One day, I poked it with a broom, and it ran away. It hasn't come back since, and we now have all manner of wild animals living in and around our house. There is also a sparrowhawk, who might also eat the birds/ mice/ hedgehogs, but thanks to our giant hedge, he is far less of a threat than a cat.
     
  11. ArtEChoke Gems: 17/31
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  12. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Australia also has problems with dozens of other introduced species (rabbits etc.), and even native ones (koalas) reproducing far beyond the means of the environment to support them.

    But Australia is an extreme, and we're not discussing extremes. My examples are from central Europe, where cats have lived alongside man for hundreds of years.

    You should also look into how disastrous some "final solution" plans in Australia and elsewhere proved to be. Instead of ridding the content of rabbits, for example, gigantic amounts of rabbits were killed by some poison they used on a national level, but a miniscule amount of them were resistant to it. Despite millions of dead rabbits, the population rebounded completely, only it is now super-resistant thanks to the poison immunity of the few that survived the attempt to eradicate them...
     
  13. Carcaroth

    Carcaroth I call on the priests, saints and dancin' girls ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Feral cats should be dealt with humanely by the local goverment, it's just asking for trouble to allow people to shoot cats willy-nilly. People love their pets and it's not a great leap of imagination to believe there are people out there who would get their revenge by attacking peoples families.

    I've never known a problem with cat's mess, perhaps people aren't aware that bird droppings are generally more dangerous to children. Sand pits have been mentioned as being used as a toilet - simple solution is to get a cover for when it's not being used. There are also a number of different plants on the market that act as natural repellents if you have an interest in gardening. And rather than shoot them, use a hose pipe or water pistol. OK they might not get the message immediately, but has the bonus that your children can use it as well.
     
  14. ArtEChoke Gems: 17/31
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    So its ok to exterminate a species as long as you're just one of a handful of factors invovled.

    And the article that started the discussion is from Wisconsin, where, evidently, cats have not lived alongside man for hundreds of years. The Australian examples are just as relevant as central Europe, as its an example provided to juxtapose, and shed light on the article, just as your Central Europe suggestions were.

    Its pretty clear to me that no matter what is dug up or pointed out, there will be no mutual understanding on this topic.

    I do understand that wiping out a feral cat population is as realistic as trying to shoot all of the rats in the NYC subway system (there I go with the rat comparision again). It just ain't gonna happen. Giving people the right to exterminate them from their own property though, doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me.
     
  15. Spellbound

    Spellbound Fleur de Mystique Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Whether the law allows it or not, it takes a certain type of person to even want to, or even be able to do it...someone who must believe that animal life is pretty much meaningless and the notion of "property" is only important if it's HIS. It's quite sad.
     
  16. Fiatil Gems: 4/31
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    As sad as it is, there are PLENTY of people who wouldn't flinch at killing a cat if the law was passed in my state.
     
  17. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    :lol: That's just too funny. I know it's serious, but at the same time funny. They could try a few more ways wiping out the rabbits, come to similar results, and in a few years we'll have a population of ultra-resistant, terminator-style bunnies running all over Australia.
     
  18. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    [​IMG]
    Oh, really? I'd say more than a couple hundred years, at least. When was that area first settled? Certainly cats have been there then. And certainly they've been allowed to roam then. Keeping them inside is a novel idea.
     
  19. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Tal,

    I thought his comment was tongue-in-cheek. I think he is being sarcastic, but maybe I just misinterpreted it.

    To answer your question, yes about 200 years ago Wisconsin was settled. There had been trapping going on there since the 1600s, but I doubt many trappers had cats as pets. Serious settlement of Wisconsin began prior to the Louisiana purchase, in 1803, but later than the intial settlements on the east coast obviously.
     
  20. Fallen Paladin

    Fallen Paladin The One and the Same Veteran

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    Tal, did you catch the show Preverjeno? They were discusing the issue of pets being killed or injured by guns, and more likely for fun than trespassing. Seems that trespassing is just an excuse for these people to go and shoot something.
     
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