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How do you keep a Kensai alive?

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by Eyebreaker7, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Shortsword which adds an extra At/round, which I believe is missing from it's description. Go to the home page on this site, choose Games and then choose BG2. You will probably find a complete item list in there somewhere.
     
  2. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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  3. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Ilbratha, though only a Short Sword +1, lets your PC casts Mirror Image x1/day. It can come in handy.
     
  4. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Fair point. I usually play with 4 or less size parties, where it's not quite a given that you max out, but you get close.
     
  5. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Thanks for the link. I was stumbling around blindly. :)

    Yes the +1 attacks per round is nice so is the ZERO speed factor!
     
  6. Eyebreaker7

    Eyebreaker7 Someone clean my litter box ★ SPS Account Holder New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I've got another problem with my Kensai. More so her being a Kensai 13 dual classed to a Mage. I was able to take a proficiency slot for a sling but due to my Kensai class, I'm guessing, I am unable to use it? Why give me the option of wasting a proficiency point?
    Or am I missing something? Is there a mod or something that will allow it? :bang:
     
  7. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    SK will help you change it something else....
     
  8. Darion

    Darion Resident Dissident Veteran BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    The point was meant to be spent on that particular class. So yeah.
    Wasted or use the higher force aka SK.
     
  9. SlickRCBD Gems: 23/31
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    I think the complaint was that IIRC a Cleric->mage dual can't take a point in daggers or darts, but a kensai->mage can take a point in slings.
     
  10. Inquisitor Gems: 1/31
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    Kensai was born to DUAL!

    The best is to Dual Kensai on level 21!
    Yo will get +7 to damage modificator and +7 Thaco. IMAGINE IT!!!
    AND HIGH LEVEL ABILITIES of Warrior! For example - hardiness (40% protection of physical damage)
    And also more proffiencie's points. Take 3 points in dual-weild weapon. Take Flails of Ages +5 and Axe of Uneyelding...
    You will get wizard only 22-th level. But it is no difference with 28-wizard, only a 2 spells of 8-th level and 1 spell of 9-th level... The advantages of high level kensai worth it. This is the best ultimate machine to take SOLO SOA and TOB.
    Also Kensai21/thief31 - very powerfull. has more AC. Because of UAI you can wear White Dragon scales withoud damage to you thieving abilities, and bracers +2damage. So in a result you will have+9damage modificator.. Think about it!
    all of theese duals was tested on hardest difficulty TOB. Much better that FighterMage ot Bereserk/cleric, thief/mage...
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
  11. occam Gems: 2/31
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    Uh, I disagree with dual-classing to Mage at 21.
    To reach level 21 Kensai, you need 3250000. To reach level 22 Mage, you need 4500000.
    This means that it will take you 7750000 points to activate your Fighhter levels back. You'll probably be deep in ToB. It's really not worth it.

    I would dual-class to Thief at level 13. If you haven't a lot of patience, go for it at level 9.
    The catch is the Use Any Item High-Level Ability (you will reach them when you hit level up and have at leas 3M in experience points).

    It allows you to use ANY item in the game. You can wear armor (finally, some protection for out PC!). You can backstab with freaking Carsomyr.
    I would equip Celestial Fury and the Equalizer (switch Equalizer with Daystar when you are fighting undead).

    If you plan to use a dual-classed Kensai/Mage, consider playing a multiclassed Fighter/Mage instead. He's superior to the Kensai/Mage in every way.
    If you are dead-set on the Kensai/Mage, I would invest in Quarterstaves.
    Grab the Staff of the Magi as soon as you feel up to the task and use a Staff +3 before that.

    Make sure to grab the Staff of Ram in ToB (I wouldn't explore Watcher's Keep in SoA). Use Blur and Stoneskin. Maybe have Defensive Harmony cast on you (alas, that spell has a ridiculously short duration).
    Don't forget that The Kensai/Mage is not a tank, so make sure to have at least two frontliners in your party.

    Good luck!
     
  12. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    You cannot backstab with Carsomyr, sorry. It is not a thief weapon so, even though UAI allows you to use it when you otherwise could not, UAI does not transform it into a weapon that can backstab.

    Also, you can't backstab with the staff of the magi either. It's mostly useful for its instant invisibility trick and other benefits rather than as a pure damage dealer.

    There's really no way to effectively use a dual Kensai/Mage when you are dualling at 21. There's either an incredible amount of cheese that is going to be used, liberal use of shadowkeeper or the console, or some hard core masochism grinding.
     
  13. occam Gems: 2/31
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    I didn't know you couldn't backstab with Carsomyr :/
    Never matter, you can backstab with Celestial Fury and use Carsomyr for straight melee (perhaps not the optimal use of the Kensai/Thief, but it's nice to have that option).

    As for the Staff of the Magi, I knew you couldn't backstab with it; but I'm suggesting it for the Kensai/Mage, who isn't into the backstabbing business in the first place.
    Besides the Invisibility (which, I think, provokes True sight from too many enemies in ToB - maybe caste Spell Immunity: Divination before attacking?) the Staff of the Magi provides Spell Trap, a very useful Spell that sadly, is 9th level and normally has to compete with Time Stop and Comet. Now you get it for free.

    As for the Kensai/Thief, I've been thinking of rolling one myself.
    Staff of the Magi/Staff of Ram (for the dirty weapon switch backstab) or Celestial Fury +Dagger of the Stars?
     
  14. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    I never had much use for daggers with F/T type characters. I just didn't like giving up the higher base damage (which is multiplied with backstab). I also wouldn't bother with the random invisibility properties and, by the time you get that dagger and upgrade it, the THAC0 boost is pretty meaningless.

    If you want to dual wield, there are better choices.

    Also, it's not just Carsomyr, you can't backstab with any two handed sword because they are not coded as single class thief weapons. Staffs usually are, but the staff of the magi is coded differently.
     
    occam likes this.
  15. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Any low-damage weapon in the off-hand slot, like a Dagger or Shortsword, can be very useful if they come with a disabling ability or an ability like Mirror Image. The Pixie Prick, Kundane, etc... are all useful, even in later game scenarios.
     
  16. henkie

    henkie Hammertime Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    For a kensai-thief, Staff of Ram for max backstab damage or dual wielding long swords. Weapons with a passive ability like immunity to charm / level drain or some such are great to put in your off hand.
     
  17. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Right, but he was talking about using a dagger with a minor, random, invisibility property and a THAC0 boost that I feel is pretty meaningless by that time.

    I'd rather use a situational weapon like the upgraded mace of disruption if I didn't have negative plane protection from something else, or even belm or something else that gave me an extra attack with my main weapon.

    If this is a solo, then there's even less reason to want to use that particular dagger.
     
  18. Inquisitor Gems: 1/31
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    I was speaking about solo. If you play Baldur's GAte Trilogy you can make more than 7-level of Kensai in BGI... 13-15lvl - it's ok. Blood Golems in cave (where is tome of Constitution) give 1500 Xp per one, so it's all about time for killing if you wanted. Also wyrms give nice amount of XP. So i will reactivate my kensai lvl after going out from Underdark.
    Multiclass i think worse than kens(21)/mage. Kai ability and +7 damage modificator of Kensai show it. But Muticlass fighter/wiz is much comfortable to play, in that case i agree.
    And actualy Kensai/mage is a Tank. Investing in Quaterstaves?!?!:D For what reason? It is combat machine, not wizard. Two-weapon style: Flail of ages +5 and Axe +5 of Uneyelding. Flail has 33% to stun opponent, elemental damage. Axe has regeneration and bonus to AC. Four attacks per round. Can chop everyone to a salat.
    And of course Kensai(21)/mage better in pvm/pvp to kensai/fighter(13). I like powerplaying.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  19. occam Gems: 2/31
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    Ok, you can probably pull it off solo.
    I think farming winter wolves (in the mine area, just south of nashkel). is better than farming wyvern and flesh golems.
    They give 974xp (which is significantly less than wyverns and flesh golems) but the quantity of the wolves that spawn grows with your level. This isn't true for wyverns and flesh golems: you're only getting one every time you rest.

    Eh, I disagree.
    1) In BG1, you will struggle a lot with Kensais, because they cannot don armor, and, unlike the would-be Fighter/Mage, cannot use bows. I assuming this is what you meant by "comfortable to play"? If you play solo, the game will be a pain in the arse, because you will be forced to kite every enemy.
    2) Even if you level at 21, you are going to get just one casting of the Greater Whirlwind feat. Fighter/Mages get many castings of this ability.
    3) In Shadows of Amn, your Mage will be a glass cannon until you get your Fighter levels back. Which is a problem if you're going to play solo.

    Yeah, Axe of The Unyielding/Flail of the Ages is what I ultimately use with my Fighter/Mage. I was suggesting quarterstaves because you can use Staff of the Magi/Staff of the Ram, and I don't really think the K/M can ever become a good tank (no Aslyferund Chain. No Bracers of Defence AC3).

    This is just my opinion, obv. You can do what you feel best. Ni puha ni pera :p
     
  20. SlickRCBD Gems: 23/31
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    Are you saying that if I put say Celestial Fury in my off-hand, I'd get a chance to stun my opponent even when hitting with my main-hand weapon, thus several attempts per round?
    I thought only passive abilities were useful for off-hand weapons. If you needed to hit the enemy for the ability to kick in, you needed to hit with the weapon in question, and thus you'd only get the one attack with the (minimum) -2 penalty.

    That's how we did things in P&P, but those might have been house rules, sometimes I forget what our house rules were as opposed to standard rules.

    ---------- Added 0 hours, 3 minutes and 50 seconds later... ----------

    Oh, for the dueling level, I've never dueled higher than level 19. The level 21 might work for dueling to thief, but not to a mage, since you'll only get your mage levels back at the very end of the game, if then. You'll just be a weakened mage who can't equip certain items, with some extra HP to make up for it.

    Level 19 might work for kensai/mage, but it will still be a long, painful road. Thieves reach level 22 much quicker due to a different XP progression.
     
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