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Hillary or Donald? (Trump Wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Taluntain, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    Democracy is a joke in practice and American elections are just popularity contests.
     
  2. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    And that is the problem. Either democratic, Republic or Oblivion. Voting for not one of the two above is useless. It is not an democracy, it is a duo-cracy.

    Again what if you had 4 parties that change power. Democrats, Republicans, Liberals/green and Socialists. (A Socialist is not a Communist. A Communist pretends to be a Socialist)
     
  3. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    As you could probably tell from the election results, American voters do not align according to the four concepts you wrote.

    Mostly, you have Republicans, which include fiscal conservatives and social conservatives, and Democrats, which include fiscal liberals and social liberals. Religion is still a very strong presence in the US, and the more religious a person is, the more socially conservative that person generally is (not always, obviously, but good enough for this discussion).

    So, I do not know how you would define the Liberals/green and Socialists that you list, but I am guessing that those designations apply to social liberals and fiscal liberals.

    There is also the general phenomenon of certain people voting against their specific interests in one area because they value other interests more highly.

    For example, someone who is a rich Democrat in the U.S. might very well have decided to value social liberalism over fiscal conservatism. Clearly, that person benefits more on a fiscal basis with a Republican as president as opposed to a Democrat, considering the Republican mantra is "lower taxes" (which really means - "on the rich") whereas the Democrats cannot really be said to care much about where taxes go when considering the programs they want to put in place.

    Alternatively, a large number of relatively poor people might be much better off with a Democrat as president when you consider available services and things of that nature, but they often are socially conservative and value such things as gun rights and pro-life over the possible monetary benefits to them of a Democrat in the presidency.

    Then, you also have to consider how toxic the US has become and how clear it is that the large corporations and their ilk are running the show, no matter who is the actual president. That pisses off a large number of people, who do not like feeling powerless and, after 8 years of Obama's administration that really has not done anything that they can see as making their situations better (with Obamacare being, frankly, an expensive disaster to them), they are ready to bring in an outsider who they feel will not bow to special interests. Whether that actually will be the situation remains to be seen.
     
  4. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I tend to be more conservative than liberal... but honestly, I'm not even sure what DJT even is. Whatever he is, it frightens me that he will soon be the leader of the free world. Populism, fascism, rasicm... and the sullying of something as pure and simple as a Tic Tac -- it's still too much to take in.
     
  5. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    The phrase "free world" at this point in history makes me crack up every time. USA doesn't even make it to the top 10 on most freedom indices these days.
     
  6. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Leader of the Free World is mostly just a title these days, used by me primarily to add a sense of drama to my post.
     
  7. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    Obviously. Still cracks me up though. :shake:
     
  8. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Also, in comparing the US politicians to their European counterparts, keep in mind that our mainstream "liberals" are more conservative than your conservatives. Just sayin' . . .
     
  9. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    In theorie.
    What if both parties were to split up. Sanders takes half, Clinton takes half. Trump takes half and tea party takes half. Then you have 4 options to vote for, needing two to govern.

    The next 4 years, every democrat is going to frustrate republican laws. And vice versa with the previous 8. In Europe that is called just plain stupid. If the democrat win in 4 years, they will reverse many Trump-laws. That is not being constructive.

    Odd, I am following us elections since bush jr. Twice the democrats had more votes, but not the potus. Unheard in Europe. Flabbergasted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2016
  10. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    Electoral College is a good thing.
     
  11. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    Meanwhile at the White House...

    [​IMG]
     
    pplr, The Great Snook and Taluntain like this.
  12. 70-07 Gems: 1/31
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    While I'm glad it's pretty much done and over with, I appreciate the entertainment this election has given me as well as the hilarious reactions others have had to it.
     
  13. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    Its been a fun election but a 4 year hangover may be less fun.

    Though looking back at all the things that happened in this past election where the proper response was WTF I guess it is fitting that the electoral college vote goes to someone other than who won the popular vote.

    I voted Sanders in the primary and Hillary in the general so you can guess at some of my views.

    I can actually take this as a validation of democracy with a small "d"-something that the military in Thailand is using Trump as one more excuse to try to undermine (it seems Trump is seen as someone who doesn't bring great respect in some people and nations..) Why a validation? Because as flawed as she was I do honestly think Hillary would've been a better president.

    Does that mean Trump isn't the president elect, no he is and I recognize that. I'm just getting less attached to the Electoral College.

    Plus I'm pretty sure he would've run around complaining the election was rigged had the situation been reversed. Irony of ironies he even said so before.

    At least a Sheriff from my state, Wisconsin, who I think gave the car keys back to someone too drunk to legally drive and recently had someone die in a his jail due to lack of water may now be given a notable position in homeland security.

    Then again maybe the entertainment value of this screwy last election isn't done yet. We still have his administration to look forward to.
     
  14. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    And hopefully some real forms in the 8 years after that.

    In my county everybody is by law forced to be insured, and dokters help you out without asking if you are insured. You cannot be rejected. If we can do it for generations, then hopefully Obama care can stand.
    The top tier of incomes( above 66.422 euro) are taxed 52% If we can be competitive in trade with these numbers, so can the US. You read correctly, 52 % The lowest is 19% up to 20.000.
     
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  15. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    Update from Canada (un-credited because I do not know who the author is)

     
  16. Keneth Gems: 28/31
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    It's hard to say for sure, but I'd estimate the number to be around 0 (±1) per province.

    Ironically, a "re-education camp" sounds exactly like what the brainwashed regressive left needs...
     
  17. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    Actually the misleading fluff piece (misleading because of parts like where it said left-leaning Americans fear they will have to "hunt, pray, pay taxes, and live according to the Constitution" when a real world recent example of a conservative dodging paying taxes could be the President-elect) is similar to a satirical piece put out by a Canadian radio show where they did advertise their community's willingness to take in refugees if Trump is elected.

    Now I wouldn't go (having a corrupt, dishonest, and control centralizing governor hasn't pushed me out of Wisconsin) but laying out the welcome mat as a joke actually brought more interest from real refugees from places like the Middle East.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  18. damedog Gems: 15/31
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    Emperor Trump has been laying out economic policies that seem almost liberal, from maternity leave to a better student loan deal. Is he going to remake the Republicans in his own image? I can see that happening. They're losers who couldn't stop him even when they threw their full weight against him, along with the Democrats.
     
  19. Merlanni

    Merlanni ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    If he reforms the republicans it was good for something. How wrong can it go in four years. we survived 8 years Bush.
     
  20. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    I agree with you on this. One of what I hope will be the greatest things about his Presidency is that he appears to be interested in doing whatever makes sense and he doesn't seem to care which party came up with the idea. He is clearly going to upset the apple cart.
     
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