Has anyone tried Improved Anvil v6?

The controversy has been going on since long before any payment was required, for many years. It's as much about Improved Anvil as it is the differing viewpoints/personalities of key figures at BlackWyrm Lair forums and Pocketplane Group (and similar) forums.

And I hate to admit it, but I agree with dmc. It can be a tad amusing to stand back and watch the show.

 

Considering I have never posted about IA anywhere else but in this thread, I have no idea what you are babbling about.

 

Search for improved anvil in the gibberlings3 forums for example. There will be plenty of topics, full with walls of text unrelated to the actual content of Improved Anvil. Just controversy and attacks.

Montresor: don't worry, we know exactly what we're doing.

 

Please define "successful" in terms of how you think it applies to IA.

 

Successful is a subjective term; especially in a non-profit or hobby field.

Nonetheless, here you are, it's successful in at least three ways:
1) Successful to make true tacticians of BG2. Tacticians who can then easily win any other mod (they confirmed it), so the knowledge is not Improved Anvil specific.
2) The several compliments show how many people had great fun in it. And what about those many players who didn't like it? It doesn't matter, because this is not like a must-to-be-bought thing like bread. Quantity does not matter, only quality. Less good tacticians is always better than lots of weak tacticians. And generally, either, it doesn't matter who don't like a mod, when there are those who like it. Because Improved Anvil does not need to be compared with other mods. If others prefer to do so, they can. But success for non-profit game mods is primarily a subjective term: if the authors and fans are happy about it, then it's already great news.
3) Successful to make debates and controversy.

 

1. Demonstrating game engine nuances is not success. The goal of a mod is to allow players to win -- therefore "winning" is a poor measure of success. Generally making a team of Khan-like supermen takes the challenge out of any mod.

2. Testimonials do not measure success.

3. I've only seen arguments ... not very good debates and certainly there is no controversy (people either like it or they don't).

 

Hi there. Name's Ardanis, in case somebody knows me, but doesn't recognize under this disguise.


1) You confuse learning tactics with getting used to be overwhelmed by opponents' sheer power and not become scared. IA, at least v4 that I've played, shines at the second, but definitely not at the first - like stripping the Thief class of providing any useful contribution into the fight. Players' comments suggest that further versions are exactly the same.

I think it just once more demonstrates that you and Sikret often fail to bring the real meaning of your posts to others, as well as to understand what said others really meant in their own. Broken phone, yeah.

3) And many thanks for that, if laughter truly extends the lifespan, then I owe you two at least a couple of years

 

Ardanis:
As I said, the practice does not confirm what you say in (1). Players who finished Improved Anvil are easily able to win other tactical mods as well (several cases confirm this). It means the new tactics learnt can be applied in any mod, not just in Improved Anvil. This is a success.

T2Bruno: as I wrote you, in a hobby activity, success is defined by the person/people who do the hobby. Not by you, or by the players. If the mod makers say that players should define "success" for him/her, then that will be the definition of success. If he defines success for himself/herself instead, then that is success. With Sikret, we're pretty satisfied with Improved Anvil, and we find it successful.

While players learn how to win a difficult mod as Improved Anvil (and then practically any other hard mod), they learn tactical thinking as well. In the system of Improved Anvil, but those skills will be general. Sikret and myself feels it a success when a player learnt tactical skills after drawing and completing his own learning curve. Only a few players can do it. Others either don't like Improved Anvil, or too weak to be persistent players. Many players from the latter group are disappointed and frustrated, and start to blame Improved Anvil in various ways. That is how many posts in this topic as well are born

As I said, success for a hobby can have a subjective definition. Unlike in market where there are some common definitions of success (such as high profit) which should be followed by company owners (or they will look stupid), in a hobby, it is different. For example, for us, testimonials measure success. Because they show that THERE ARE SOME PLAYERS who enjoyed the mod AND became a tactician according to our definition. Rather 10 positive testimonials and tacticians than 10000 satisfied players with a mod that is different from Sikret's visions.

 

The more I read some of the discussions occurring on these boards lately, like this one, the more I begin to believe that the discussions themselves are largely incidental—a tool, or an excuse to address some other need that exists below the surface. I get the sense of a burning thirst in need of quenching, a longing to show the world that I am good, I am worthy, I am capable.

I begin to think that a more appropriate audience for such discussions would be some manner of psychological professional, rather the forum posters who are unwilling and/or incapable for addressing the real issue at hand.

Perhaps I go too far in saying such things, but these discussions become increasingly disturbing to observe, and that’s part of the reason I felt the need to extricate myself from them.

By all means, continue, and don’t mind me as I sit by the sidelines psychoanalyzing the situation….

 

OK, I hope that you're not implying that the "skills" (and I use that term very loosely) needed to beat IA actually have a real-world application. Because you will fail miserably. And do yourself a favor by not going to "persistence pays off" territory".

Yes it is.

 

Yes, exactly, dmc! In a hobby thing, it is like this: when we say it's success for us, it is success. Thanks for the great summary!

Of course, Improved Anvil doesn't need to be a success to you, or to many others. Noone takes the possibility from you to tell: Improved Anvil is not success! If that matters to you that you define a mod that is not even yours as unsuccessful, noone takes that from you

Dear readers, remember my post about products and customer-centrism. It is a natural phenomenon that many players think they are the one to define success for a mod, or to use market economy terms for it (e.g. how it is customized to the needs of MOST players). Similarly, as a customer finds a product good or not. If very many customers finds it very good, this may be a measure of success (at least, in the case when a reasonable business model is used, where products which are loved by many customers generate nice profit too).

Depends how you define real-world applications. E.g. if you define the playing of BG2 mods as a real-world thing (because you sit in front of your PC and play, etc.), then yes, the Improved Anvil tactical skills can be used in other BG2 mods, several tacticians confirmed this as I said before. So, actually, if the player likes that he/she can now beat any mod more easily, then it is a good feeling for him. And what can be a better success in case of a player than HE/SHE being glad about the new tactical skills that can be applied in non-ImprovedAnvil mods as well.

Marceror: yes, there are interesting psychological phenomena here. E.g. that some people cannot accept their little wishes regarding Improved Anvil are not babysitted Moreover, it is also psychologically "interesting" how some of you tries to DEFINE success FOR THE AUTHOR OF A HOBBY MOD. It really shows you can't see further than your nose; you forget that a hobbyist defines success subjectively for his or her own hobby activities!

 

By "real-world application", I meant for those peole who actually have a life.

 

That's not what I meant, but whatever. Who in this thread is expressing little wishes regarding Improved Anvil, much less demonstrating a difficulty to accept that those wishes aren't being babysitted? I think you and I must be reading different threads.

 

I need some of what this guy is taking, it must be good stuff...

 

It's about what I've said above. You say 'success', suggesting what you've elaborated on, but for another person it instead is 'benevolent reception by the public'. That's okay, since you prefer an inner circle which shares your interests, over a crowd of different minds to please. I do wonder however - why bother posting walls-of-text then? Others - non-average players - quite likely do not need it, since they can look past these threads and/or filter their content and then decide for themselves. To try and convince of something those poor souls who believe it is their born right to be babysitted? You've said you and Sikret are not much interested in attracting numbers.

 

Very good summary. Support (e.g. technical, advice etc.) is offered to players who accept the rule world of Improved Anvil. We will not change on our views/rules just because more people would be pleased (unless we are convinced by arguments that are valid in our system; Sikret has a strict system, so yes, we have to refuse many suggestions because they do not meet the strict requirements.).

We react on topics here and in Gibberlings3 because there are sometimes lies and rude misrepresentations of Sikret's and/or my views. Just like everyone else, we have right to avoid that the public is misinformed about our own intellectual work (in this concete case, about Sikret's intellectual work). Because even those who otherwise would like our strict approaches might become misled by the many false things. A big part of these false things are spread by those who have a personal problem with BWL's style, or got disappointed in Improved Anvil in some way.

 

You can avoid some of that by being more specific. In this thread you had the same problem with redefining "success", while you could've outright estamblished that you mean it on a personal level, not how the word is generally perceived.

If you need to clarify something, issue more news, but construct the text less like a weak tactician or it will come out as the usual flamebait, which in the end just makes BWL's situation worse. Having someone else proof-read the text is good way to improve it. In the modding community PR is as important as in the economy, NGO and other sectors, no matter how small a segment you target. The BW (not Blood War anymore ) doesn't net anything good but some infantile comic relief.

If you want to avoid speculation, open up a bit more (this doesn't need to be related to the forum). It appears much of the spite is caused by extraneous secrecy.

- CE

 

It does not eat much energy to react occassionally in some topics. Much text, but usually threads become quiet for months after it. Of course, some other threads e.g. at G3 are simply ignored by us. So no worries, it does not use much resources that we react occassionally.

It is also a common misbelief that BWL has a "bad" situation. According to me (owner of BWL) and other leaders, it is satisfying. Not perfect situation but satisfying. BWL is led with authoritative ways, it is not a "democracy". (Yes, for online websites, I do not support democracy in its "known" meaning. I think I told it in the past why it is so; some reasons: in a "real-life" democracy, citizens also have obligations, not just rights; and they can't appear anonymously; these are not true to online sites).

All in all, many people should open their eyes and realize that just because they belong to a big "mob" that dislikes BWL does not mean BWL's governing body also feels the same