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Habemus Papam (We have a Pope)

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Montresor, Mar 13, 2013.

  1. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Jorge Bergogolio, the archbishop of Buenos Aires, was elected pope on Wednesday, the first pontiff from Latin America to lead the world's 1.2 billion Catholics.

    Full Story at CNN

    One thing I noticed was that the new pope wasn't exactly born yesterday:

    Until last year, Bergoglio was the archbishop of Buenos Aires before stepping down because of his age. He is 76.

    In which case it may not be long before the Cardinals will have to elect another new pope.

    Anyway, discuss!
     
  2. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I think they have to be over 70 to be even considered... good thing our lifespans are on the increase. :shake:

    From the little bit of info I've heard so far it looks like he'll be another "status-quo" conservative pope who won't make any real changes. Not exactly good news for the Church IMO.
     
  3. Tarrasque

    Tarrasque Whoever said Paladins had to be charismatic? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    As long as he doesn't say it's 'God's will' that the Falklands become Argentinean I really am not that fussed :p
     
  4. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
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  5. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Yea, that was a gibe at their conservativeness... :heh:
     
  6. Arkite

    Arkite Crash or crash through Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    That was quick!

    Had the same first thought as when Benedict stepped out the first time "he looks so young!". Hopefully Francis (and the church) spends more of his time on social justice than social engineering.
     
  7. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I am fascinated by how fascinated everyone is with this. There are a lot of leaders in the world (religious and secular). Why does this one get SO much attention?

    Although I must say, the USA could look at the efficiency of the papal voting systems when reviewing their own presdiential election behemoth.
     
  8. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
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    I was thinking about that yesterday (for about 3 minutes): why don't they nominate a 40-year-old, or a even a 50-year-old? Are they too immature, too "worldly?"

    Yeah...I would assume part of why the popes have been older and older as time goes on is because the church is attempting to reach outside of the conservative "Italian mafia" so to speak (horrible and mostly unintended pun, but kind of an apt comparison) in order to reach those leaders that the Catholic elites in Rome may not be completely familiar with. They probably aren't very confident in what they know about these "outsiders" unless they have years and years, decades and decades, apparently, of data to fall back on in order to evaluate them. This guy is the first non-European pope and the 3rd ever who wasn't Italian, I guess.

    A Catholic I work with also told me the cardinals look down on those who have been cardinals in the biggest and most high-profile locations (like NYC or Dublin, I guess) so those guys are never selected or even seriously considered.

    I'm not a Catholic. It's interesting, though. The more I look at European history the more interest I have in the Catholic church and the more I work in this vast dysfunctional DoD bureaucracy the more interest I have in comparing other bureacracies around the globe to DoD.
     
  9. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Yeah, there's no age minimum of being Pope. As for being conservative, I'm not totally sold on that either. He is also the first Jesuit in the papacy, and the Jesuit order of Catholic priests are considered to be the most liberal group around. Granted, that is compared to other Catholic orders, so it's not exactly a high bar you have to clear to be the "most liberal", but still...

    I think there are very few requirements to being elected Pope beyond being Catholic. While most of them are former priests, bishops, and cardinals (and many times all three) I do not think that is technically a requirement. One odd thing I find about his age is that while the Catholic Church doesn't require priests to retire, they do allow priests over the age of 75 to retire. So he is taking this position at an age when many in his faith actually start to retire. But I agree that the odds are pretty good that this will be another pope with a relatively short tenure (well, at least compared to JP2 - probably in the 5-10 year range).

    Because most of the major world religions don't have a single leader who speaks for the entire flock. Protestants are so diversified in different groups, that it would be pointless to have a single leader. Shia Muslims have Ayatollahs and Grand Ayatollahs, but there is no one singular Grand Ayatollah that speaks for all of Islam. In fact, I think at any given time there are a few dozen Grand Ayatollahs. And while Catholics are by no means a majority of the world's population, there are 1.2 BILLION of them, meaning that about 1 in every 6 people in the world are Catholic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
  10. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    ^ So it would really be very strange if it didn't get this much attention.
     
  11. Urithrand

    Urithrand Mind turning the light off? ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    This being the AoDA I'm assuming that I can get my 2c in. He's already shown himself to be a typical "old school" catholic in regards to gay marriage / adoption (he actually referred to gay adoption as "discrimination against children") so I shall continue to be utterly disinterested in him, his religion and his views.

    That is all.
     
  12. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Ha! That was somewhat prescient!

    Though I'd be surprised if the Pope got involved :)
     
  13. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Yeah, that'll do the trick Cristina :lol:.
    That woman is obsessed.
     
  14. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    He could even be conservative for a Jesuit but I am encouraged by his concern for the poor (which isn't a bad thing considering the number of places with a growing rich/poor gap).

    I am impressed by a number of things the Jesuits do and I my have to ask one I know who I recall years ago may have told me and a bunch of other people that theres never been (and possibly won't be) a Jesuit pope.

    :pope::pope::pope::pope::pope::pope::pope::pope:

    Special year.

    Now I'm not happy about what he said about gay people but I expect my physical body will probably be 6 feet under before there are married gay priests (an idea I support as fair) but honest concern for the poor is welcome nonetheless (I wasn't expecting much movement on the former issue anyway).

    But aren't we in the time of multi-tasking? :D

    I'm not sure about priests but I believe there is a mandated (unless an exception and/or wavier is made) retirement age for ArchBishops.

    But becoming a Pope is a remarkable way to retire.

    I suspect there is a certain amount of national pride that goes into Argentina and the Falklands, and he may even be tempted to be for his home team, but this is one area where I do hope he stays out of it and that he deals with other, more valid, things.

    On the election itself keep in mind (that unlike a typical US political election or elections in many nations) there is a certain amount of deck stacking in that the last 2 Popes appointed most of the voters. So it is hard to see a typical liberal/conservative divide as may happen in the population as a whole. I suspect Italians are overrepresented but not as united as their nationality may indicate.

    I know that to expect perfection or for the Pope to agree with me-a practicing Catholic-on every issue is not likely but I am reasonably pleased with what I've seen thus far.
     
  15. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    Heck, never mind married gay priests. I don't think you'll see married priests, or women priests any time soon. (Both of which I think would occur before we saw married gay priests.)
     
  16. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    Agreed.

    Edit:
    Though as much as I support change on each of those issues (and I do) I'm still pleased with some of the new Pope's message.

    I also understand that with an institution that experienced and made it through the dark ages plus has over 1 billion members worldwide changes slowly. Don't forget that we in the US were shooting each other over if it was justifiable to enslave someone else due to his or her skin color over a mere (comparatively) 150 some years ago.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  17. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    You guys have it wrong -- there will definitely be married gay priests as soon as we have married priests -- there just won't be gay-married priests. There's a difference...
     
  18. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Married priests are already there for clergy converting from other denominations who wish to serve as Catholic priests.

    Also, it doesn't take much theological knowledge to know that we aren't gonna see any of: women priests, gay marriage, relaxation on abortion, even if an elect is considered "conservative". According to some media anything less than outright heterodox can be "conservative". :p

    "Francis" for a papal name sounds like a revolution coming but one of a different sort, mostly related to the way the Church reaches to people and governs itself.

    I love Pope Francis's simplicity and friendliness, such as when he waved and said the Italian "bona sera" after his election. Or when he wished the faithful a good lunch (or was it dinner) when finishing the Angelus (unless it was a Wednesday audience). Or the tweets and other messages so far.
     
  19. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    Habet?
    :D

    Edit: for those who didn't get that, it was a joking reference to the ceremonial grope, which must be performed to ascertain that the pope is indeed male.
    "Habet testiculas", they will say. unless they make a startling discovery...:D
    Yeah it's a myth, but funny nonetheless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
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