Gnomes vs. Tieflings

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Tieflings got a +2 charisma bonus in 4ed. -2 charisma in 3.5ed. So thats a 4 point improvement to their charisma. I wonder how that happened.

 

The Succubi and Erinyes have been making love, not war!

 

What does the Race Bio say? I remember the 3.5ed said they had abnormalities like cat eyes and devil horns, which was why they had a lower cha score. What's the reason for the higher score now??

 

There is no reason for it listen. None. Also: all of the tieflings have horns now, and 4-5 feet long tails. The race is covered in 3 pages, round about. Most of it is just stuff telling you how to play a tiefling character. They have +2 int and +2 cha. +2 on bluff and +2 stealth (the bunched some skills into 1 skill, here and there, in this edition. To avoid complications).

They also have +5 fire resistance, wich increases as they level up. Aparantly experience causes your body to resist fire, physically. Makes sense........ None of this has an explanation written about it. The whole thing looks like a statcard, really.

 

In other words, tieflings have gone from total outcast to OMG HALF DEMON SO KEWL!!!!!!!111 in order to accomodate the fanbase. I expect they'll have The Drow Effect - where, as Nale explains, "the whole species consists of nothing but Chaotic Good rebels, yearning to throw off the reputation of their evil kin."

I think I'll stick with 3E.

 

They haven`t bothered to make the drow race yet, for 4ed. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, had no new races at all. Actually, the book itself was pretty useless. It mostly listed changes. As if the ones who made the book assumed the one who buys it, had the 2ed and 3ed setting books as well.

 

Drow and Genasi are included in the Forgotten Realms Player's guide along with the Sword Mage class.

They also add some paragon paths and an epic Destiny...

 

Not in the campaign setting. Making the setting book even more useless.



Quote: Drow and Genasi are included in the Forgotten Realms Player's guide along with the Sword Mage class.


You make it seem like a positive thing.
Its not positive when they use 2-3 books to acomplish what they did in 1 book, in the previous edition.

 

The point with the new edition is that the FR Campaign guide is supposed to be fluff, meaning that the guy that just wants the FR information, like backgrounds, new races, new classes, new feats, information on the Gods and whatever else doesn't have to sift through as much fluff, while the player who wants stuff for the campaign can go straight to that information quickly and easily.

One thing that they are trying to do with the new edition is to seperate the fluff from the mechanics. That way the players that want mechanics can buy those books while the fluff crowd can buy those books.

 

Inside, I'm wincing

 

I'm not quite sure if this is considered Necromancy as the thread is still on the first page but here I go as I believe this is an interesting topic.

First and foremost I love Tieflings and Aasimars however I dont think tieflings should have ever replaced Gnomes.

Although I never played Gnomes and generally show disinterest towards the 'small' people, they were an integral part of D&D. Far from a 'joke' race they seem to portrayed as, they were the under played mischievous little people.

Also alot of people on here have commented on the 'emo' and almost 'anti hero' properties of the tieflings, which is fair enough. However thats just a complete lack of imagination on the player's part.

In my Icewind Dale 2 campaign I write all of my characters biographies and heres a summary of my four tieflings.

Trias, a complete bastard. Only looks after his own interests and Lilit's. He cares not about redemption of his heritage he doesn't care a jot about his lineage.

Lilit, a comepletely calm and sobering influence of the group. Again her heritage plays no part of her agenda which is to be by Trias' side and her love of adventure.

Gurm, the most obviously planetouched of the group. He's little more than an animal. Due to his blood he has no lips or tongue in which to communicate. He's Chaotic Evil but after being accidently freed by Trias, he feels duty bound to protect him.

Malarias, a wizard from Sigil. Again his lineage isn't important to him. He joined Trias to learn more about the Prime and so he could document his experiences.

My point with these examples are that although all of these are tiefllings none of them are the 'anti-hero' or 'emo, wrist cutting' stereotype. The problem with tieflings lies with the player not with the race.

Having said that (I'm going to contradict myself now) tieflings shouldn't be a race in the Forgotten Realms settings. Simply because why would there be so many in Faerun, or other areas, to constitute a player race? Especially when they replace the far more common Gnomes.

 

Necro, I think. But IMO nothing serious because of how things are in this section.

I do prefer Haer'Dalis to Jan Jansen. Just what do you expect from a character who has actually been to lower hells and back? But instead of the classic "dark" character "with a dark past/heritage" HD actually doesn't care about his past experiences that much at all and takes it all in stride (or more than that, since he's a Doombringer and all).
HD is a direct contradiction to the Tiefling stereotype.
HD would also be more than qualified for his particular brand of doublespeak (yes, a lot of what he says is doublespeak) - besides being a bard and having a lot of lore and experience and all, no other NPC is as sensitive and resistant to the subtleties of others (like Yoshimo, and in that particular case Haer was actually able to discern part of Yoshi's true nature and motives instead). That alone should speak volumes about how much the guy actually knows.

I wouldn't have wanted for Tieflings to become a playable race though. Part of the appeal of the race was that it wasn't playable. Gnomes were also a well-established race already.

Drow are very different from Tieflings in that Drow choose to be the brutal, evil race they are. Tieflings, on the other hand, are "tainted" because of their heritage. You will notice that how BG2 compares HD and Drizzt and how there are the striking similarities between each, and yet HD is a Chaotic Neutral Bard while Drizzt is a Chaotic Good Ranger. Drizzt denies his nature by actively taking role in dispelling it, while HD does the same simply by celebrating his heritage and taking it for granted instead of making a big deal out of it (he actually acts like he's just part of the gang despite "reminding" you of his heritage every once in a while).

 

I believe the reason behind Tieflings and Aasimar listed as player races in the Forgotten Realms was due to the changes in Mulhorand and Unther, as they were the progeny of the God-Kings. Supposedly, there were a lot of them in these countries. That is why the 3rd Edition FR Campaign guide added "Regions" to the character creation and feats selection process. A very nice touch.

 

Ressurection of an old thread.

Don't get me wrong, I like gnomes; but any rule change that lets me play with Annah more is alright by me.

 

It's largely immaterial at this point, T2. Gnomes are playable in PHB2, which is out now.

 

They are beings from another plane, and they already have an aura of powerful, high-level creatures, even at player level 1. It's like bringing a Transformer to a knife fight. You can't have a mysterious entity with hidden powers, and still claim it to be a low level character, doing its utmost to struggle through the game.

Haer'Dalis is SO emo, he'd fit right in in a Japanese anime! The fact that he knows more than he lets on already shows that. Having been to hell and back gives him a reputation of coolness and power.

 

I can't honestly see Haer'Dalis as "emo". He's more like the archetypal eccentric. He's very rarely in a "down" mood. Also, compared to the stereotypical Japanese anime character who hides something but is actually dying to share his/her burden with someone else Haer is more like someone who doesn't give a damn.
Personality rundown: He's a tiefling. If that's scares you - fine, if it doesn't - whatever. Now if you can please tapdance barefooted on hot, glowing coals while juggling swords and singing "Tunak Tunak", please do.
His "sad" personality is a facet. Its there to show that he is not completely psycho and that he's more than capable of backing his words up.
Like Minsc becoming more normal/serious when he's angry -> means Minsc is more normal and actually not as delusional as one would think.
Or Jansen becoming more sober when Kylie is on the line -> shows Jansen can lose his "eccentric" side and become more serious where loved ones are involved.

And now I've got IWD 2 nostalgia.

 

I think the CHA modifiers for the planetouched are supposed to be about an inherrant 'feeling' non-planetouched get around them. Those 'touched' by the good plains have an aura of goodness and kindness around them, even as they slaughter children. Those 'touched' by the hells have an aura of wrongness, disquiet, and something unsettling about them, even as they minister to the poor and needy.

I must confess, I have always wanted to play a Tiefling Paladin of Lathander (in the manifestation of rebirth, since I couldn't find a god of redemption in D&D lore). That being said, he'd be a very non-Drizz't character. He'd be slow to trust anyone, but perfectly sociable if he did trust you. A true paladin, through and through, though. No comprimizing of anything, ever. Also completely convinced that anyone can be redeemed, no matter how evil. Maybe a little nieve in that.

All in all, I think both races have their merits and their tendencies to stereotypes. I mean, if you want to ban a race simply because everyone does it the same way, how many surly dwarven fighters are there? How many beautiful, graceful, perfect elves? How many brainy and oft-confused gnomes? How many mischevious halflings?

 

My tiefling monk was cool.

 

Naive, or a practical idealist?

Naive: Anyone is redeemable. And I will not give up until I find a way to make it so.
-will hesitate on final blows
-will jump at any indication that a villain has changed for the better

Practical idealist: Anyone is redeemable. Unfortunately since I am neither immortal nor omniscient, and lack the ability to time travel, I can only do the best I can and pray things work out fine in the end.
-will not hesitate on final blows
-will find any indication that a villain has changed for the better doubtful