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George Martin and Death

Discussion in 'Booktalk' started by Blackthorne TA, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. Aikanaro Gems: 31/31
    Latest gem: Rogue Stone

    Sep 14, 2001
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    The way he kills off main characters is good, adds some realism and is one of the few series that does it. The Robb/Jeyne thing could have been explored a bit more, if we had have actually read the full thing of that instead of a second hand account by a character then we would probably get it and understand the whole thing more.
  2. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Oct 19, 2000
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    Cold, petty schemer yes. Playing both sides, sure. Arriving late to a battle so he can be on the winning side. Even switching sides I'd buy, plotting an ambush etc. But to plot to violate the guest right at a wedding? Even Davos said such a person is cursed by the gods. But I can swallow that, even if it doesn't sit well.

    I finished the book a bit ago, and boy did he kill them off this time. Robb and Catelyn Stark (though it seems Catelyn may have been raised by Thoros like Dondarrion), Old Bear Mormont, Joffrey Baratheon, Tywin Lannister, Lysa Arryn, and (seemingly though not for sure yet, so I won't be surprised if neither are really dead) the Clegane brothers Gregor "The Mountain" and Sandor "The Hound". Though I suppose Gregor was more heard about than seen :)

    I wonder how Littlefinger is going to get out of the murder of Lysa - why would Sansa lie for him? But perhaps he has too strong a hold already... That Littlefinger is an interesting one.

    I found it very interesting that Jon Arryn was killed off by Lysa seemingly at the behest of Littlefinger, and not at the hands of the Lannisters.

    It seems Martin like his deaths to be surprising at least.

    As for the Starks dropping like flies: Though the castle was burned, of the family, we've only lost Eddard and Robb for sure. Catelyn seems to have been raised (though if Dondarrion is any indication, it's not exactly back to life). About Benjen, I'm not sure if we ever got confirmation of his death; he is most probably dead as well, but he wasn't really a main character anyway. We still have Jon, Arya, Sansa, Bran (crippled by Jaime) and Rickon.

    Seems like all the Houses are dropping like flies :)
  3. The Kilted Crusader

    The Kilted Crusader The Famous Last words "Hey guys, watch THIS!" Veteran

    Sep 18, 2002
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    I think George RR Martin is trying to use the Starks as a wolf pack, together they thrive, seperated they die. Bit of an english class answer, but I find it sort of plausible.
  4. Alyr Arkhon Gems: 10/31
    Latest gem: Zircon

    Jul 10, 2001
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    Umm, I think that the mysterious ranger beyond the Wall, who saves Sam and Gilly is Benjen. And yes, the Starks are far from done. Remember Jojen's words: The wolves will come again. :)
  5. Gothmog

    Gothmog Man, a curious beast indeed! ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

    Jun 30, 2002
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    [​IMG] I have another thing to add...

    Remember the red sorceress?
    She started killing off all the other "wrong" self-proclaimed kings. And she did say they will all die. And a lot of them did.

    I'm not certain that had any effect on this masacre though. But might have.

    Mormont... that seemed truly too fast and sudden. I mean one page he was warm, fed welcomed (more or less) guest. The next their both their host and he is dead. Just like that.
    Sure newer members are scum, but still.
    I guess it could be explained by fright of the Others following them. Expecting death perhaps. Or drunkiness of thought that theyre saved and safe.
    Either way it seemed too sudden to me.
  6. Neriana Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper

    Sep 22, 2003
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    I think Martin just delights in writing incredibly nasty, depressing, violent books. I stopped reading after the second one because the violence seemed to be the only point, and it was so contrived and over-the-top. I don't have a bad enough opinion of human nature to swallow Martin's books; and I don't like spending my leisure time on something that makes me sick.
  7. Meatdog Gems: 15/31
    Latest gem: Waterstar

    Dec 4, 2003
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    On a Netherlandish site (which I don't give the link unless asked since I think almost none of the posters here can read Dutch) Martin states that he deliberately tries to kill of the main characters for several reasons.

    One of them is that he wants to make the reader interested in the fate of his favorite character that he got attached to and constantly wonder if he is going to die in the next chapter. It's his way to create suspense.

    Another reason is that he finds most fantasy novels to soft, that they don't resemble enough the medieval age from which they are inspired. In most fantasy books the characters have a life expectancy like ours, and this is because they live in a "modern" age but where technology has simply been replaced by magic. In Martin's world someone of the age of 40 is a very very old man/woman just like it was in the middle ages. People died very young because of a lot of circumstances. It's not called The Dark Ages for nothing. It's the feel of this period he wanted to recreate in his books.

    [ December 05, 2003, 11:39: Message edited by: Meatdog ]
  8. Apeman Gems: 25/31
    Latest gem: Moonbar


    Sep 25, 2002
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    I just recently finished "A storm of Swords" and I am very pleased. The fact that Martin kills of his characters for me is refreshing and one more thing helps, there are so many of them. I for one didn't really care when robb died and I kinda hoped that catalyn was still alive, it didn't seem fair.

    For me the most interesting characters are still in the book:

    Jaime Lannister: he unfolded quite nicely in the last two books.

    Tyrion Lannister: I liked him from the beginning on.

    Brienne of Tarth: Great character although I'm not sure where Martin is taking her.

    Jon Snow: The best stark.

    Daenerys: I really like her, and secretly hope she will be queen of the seven kingdoms.

    Davos: The Onion knight, straight up guy.

    Stannis Baratheon: manipulated by mellisandre, but man do I hope he will kill her himself.

    When will the next volume come out?!
  9. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Veteran

    Apr 4, 2001
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    Soon, soon. Or atleast that is what Martin says. He has been working on polishing it for almost a year now. Read his message here: www.georgerrmartin.com
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