fighter thief : multi or dual in evil party

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^He likely won't need it. He has a 5-person party, and while that will mean more XP for each character, it won't be so much more that the cap should come into play. In a standard 6-person party, you never get anywhere near the 8 million XP cap. Usually, you don't even reach 7 million. So while one fewer party member will mean a bit more XP for each character, they likely will still finish ToB under the maximum.

 

The difference is actually more than two levels. When out of underdark with a 6-member party, each of them has around 3,000,000 XPs, which means that your dual-class/single-class mage will be 18th level, while your multi-class f/m will be level 14 in each of his classes. The difference is 4 levels not 2.

Your f/m will not have access to 8th and 9th level spells till almost near the end of the game. It's true that he can pick HLAs from two pools, but he cannot pick most of the best mage HLAs, because in order to pick quest-level HLAs (i.e. 10th level spells) the character needs to have actually gained level 18 in his mage class.

Of course, the case for f/t is a tad better than f/m.

 

guys, thank you so much for your information.
i really appreciate it.

should i take :
1)

***** two handed sword (Carsomyr)
** two handed weapon style
*****

 

Couple things:
1. Multiclass warriors can't go beyond specialization (**) in anything except two weapon style.
2. You can't backstab with Carsomyr.

 

It just seems stupid for a multiclass fighter not to be able to achieve GM but I think either the G3 or TuTu tweaks pack gives Multiclass grandmastery.

Or you can find the weapprof.2da file and manually alter it yourself as i normally do.

 

But that's just it, they're not a master of weapons. Rather than devoting their entire lives to the study of warfare and weaponry as a single classed fighter does, they split their time between weaponry and something else. Whether it be as demanding as wizardly studies, or picking locks, or calling down godly wrath/blessings, it takes up too much of their time for them to be as good at weapons as someone fully devoted to it would be.

 

Agreed they have less time to devote to weaponry and the art of war but i thought this was better reflected in their reduced number of proficency points and lower hp compared to a pure fighter.

Half devotion to his mage/thief/cleric studies doesn't give a Fighter Multiclass any disadvantage over a pure mage/thief/cleric (except for fewer levels) so why should he be any less of a fighter.

 

Except that the "fewer levels" thing IS quite a disadvantage...

An MC character gains versatility but loses efficiency compared to a single class character. At least until higher levels (especially since spells don't get better after level 20).

The level cap prevents F/M/T from getting the best spells. A F/M or a M/T will take ages before casting them (compared to a single class).

Jan Jansen is a good mage but Imoen (not to mention Edwin) gets better spells much faster.

But I do get your point: once an MC mage gets his spells he is not penalized that much compared to a single class caster.

If you allow Paladins, Rangers and MC Fighters to get grand mastery you take the only advantage that was left to single class or DC Fighters.

Grand mastery is nerfed down already and high level spellcasters rule the game (and this is as it should be in DnD) so it's rather a question of balance.

If you feel that MC fighters should get grand mastery use SK or a mod and just go for it.

 

From the beginning I have made the arguement that he was better off taking a F/T multi-class as opposed to a dual class. I agree with everything you posted regarding the F/M, but I wasn't even considering them in my previous posts. I was only comparing these options: Would I rather have a Kensai, Berserker, or Wizard Slayer and dual class him to a thief at level 9 or 13, or would I rather have a multi-classed fighter/thief for the entirety of the game? My answer to that question is still the multi-class. Reasons: Two sets of HLAs and the fact that fighters stop getting better around level 20, and thieves leveling beyond 15 is pretty superfulous. By taking a F/T I get all the useful levels from both classes.

Obviously, if you bring in mages to the equation, it changes things a lot. But your statment is only true considering single classed (not dual classed) characters, which have never been part of the discussion. If you have 3 million XPs, and you dual classed a fighter to a mage at level 13, you won't be getting 9th level spells yet either. In fact, 9th level spells and your first HLA are still quite a ways off. A fighter needs 1.25 million XPs to hit level 13. So your mage isn't 18th level. I don't have an XP chart handy, but I'm guessing a mage with 1.75 million XP can't be more than 15th level, and he may only be 14th level. Which means you just got your fighter levels back, and not only do you not have access to HLAs, you're only a little over half way there.

No. Not with a F/T at least. A F/T can wield Carsomyr once he gets Use Any Item, but you can't backstab with it. With F/T, you're going to want to backstab, and dual wielding Celestial Fury along with either Belm, Kundane, or the Scarlet Ninja-To (recommended) in your off-hand is going to end up doing more damage over the long term than Carsomyr anyway.

[ July 28, 2006, 14:20: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

You didn't write if you dual- or muliclass.
If you want to go the 2-handed way because of carsomyr, take also quarterstaff for backstabbing.

If you multiclass, start with
++ quarterstaff
++ shortbow
++ 2-handed sword
++ 2 handed weapon style

If you want to dualclass a kensai then I'd start with

+++++ greatsword
For dualing at level 9, I'd take ++ in 2-handed weapon style, for dualing at level 13 +++ in quarterstaff.
Spend the profiency points you get during the dualing period in other spots, else they are lost.
Dagger is a good choice because of the throwing daggers.