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Ensuring A New American Century

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Arctic Daishi, Feb 6, 2013.

?

What are your thoughts on my proposals?

  1. Strongly Agree

    6.7%
  2. Somewhat Agree

    6.7%
  3. Neutral

    6.7%
  4. Somewhat Disagree

    13.3%
  5. Strongly Disagree

    66.7%
  1. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Taluntain, T2Bruno and Death Rabbit like this.
  2. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I don't believe the topic is about how ancient T2 (or any other member) happens to be :)
     
  3. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    I think this mandatory business is a bad idea just because it violates one of the basic tenets of freedom, namely that you are free to be a load/anchor/do-nothing if you want. I would not be pleased if my government showed up at my door to 'escort' me to training whether I volunteered or not.
     
  4. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Come now. Freedom is all about people being free to do what I think they should do. If they don't happen to want to do what I think they should do, then the government needs to make them do it for their own good! Oh, and if people want to do stuff I don't think they should do, then the government needs to prevent them from doing it. For their own good of course!

    FREEEEEDOM!
     
  5. T2Bruno

    T2Bruno The only source of knowledge is experience Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Sarah? Sarah ... is that you? It's been almost five years, you need to stop this now, dear. Put the guns down ... give BTA back his keyboard....
     
  6. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Wahey, I posted something that was worthy of a 'T2 like'. I can now die happy :-).
     
  7. Déise

    Déise Both happy and miserable, without the happy part!

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    If the world has gone to hell to the extent that the grunts in the US military have turned on their own friends and family all bets are probably off as to how they'll behave. It's only a small step on from how you think they'll behave, the big step is from how things are now to the military dictatorship.

    I don't believe most people would resist or that they'll be successful if they did. Most of Europe went along living their lives under the Nazis in WW2. The Chinese were powerless against the atrocities committed by Japan. Successful resistance movements like the IRA or the Vietcong won by winning the propaganda war and by making it too bothersome to hold places the dominant force wasn't too bothered about. They never went toe to toe with the opposing armies.

    In many cases the availability of guns has been a great hindrance to democracy. A tiny number of digruntled people can wreak havoc with how easy they make it to cause devastation. Think of the IRA in Ireland or ETA in Spain. This has knock on effects for democracy, particularly where politicians are directly targeted.

    Anyhoo I'm wondering how this links back to the thread title. How does giving citizens small arms and basic training give the US an advantage over China? If it is a positive thing then China could copy it very simply and much better. They'd have an awful lot more troops with guns.
     
  8. dogsoldier Gems: 7/31
    Latest gem: Tchazar


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    Exactly.
     
  9. damedog Gems: 15/31
    Latest gem: Waterstar


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    Just wanted to pop in to say that forcing issues like mandatory gun ownership and training on a population with many members so highly opposed to those views is so extreme that we would have to cease calling this nation democratic. Real tyranny is so far removed from this country most people don't see the need to drown their country in widely-available firearms to prevent it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  10. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    It doesn't. But this thread isn’t about China – it’s about how to ensure America’s dominance for the next century, including its value system. If you read AD's original (and subsequent) posts, he emphasizes over and over again how he feels gun ownership is fundamental to the American set of values that he wants to protect going forward.

    And with apologies to BTA:
    I didn’t realize we were that close in age. I thought you were more of a young pup like dmc. :p
     
  11. 8people

    8people 8 is just another way of looking at infinite ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] The pilgrims who originally set off to the New World had many leave for the new lands so they could push their religious ideals that they couldn't enforce so readily in Britain due to the freedom of choice introduced.

    As an English citizen I can firmly say - Bugger that to them bringing their ideals back to our islands!

    A lot of American culture has already leaked into British culture, and we got rid of compulsory military service, loose arms regulation and militant attitudes for good reason.

    Your manifesto is also highly exclusive - what of people unable to bear arms or serve in the military due to ability or creed? Are those who have taken vows of pacifism to join religious orders second class citizens due to inability to bear arms? Or is freedom of religion a casualty in the New American Cult?

    You say there will be a national health service as everyone will have served in a military capacity or WILL serve - what of those unfit for duty? Born with problems and needing medical treatment? Will they be denied because they cannot be carved into a cog for the American military machine?

    For shame that also accusations have been passed on such a valued member of this community :(

    The costs for such implementations are also beyond budget expectations - who will pay for the training? How will you tax the populace? Pressuring an ideal of what a citizen is and should be rewarded for creates the greatest bigotry - It is offensive to the religious (of many faiths I might add), the disabled and the elderly. It tramples over all sorts of freedoms for the sake of being able to smugly state you are the big bad wolf. What next? Vassalage and tribute?
     
  12. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I haven't been following this thread so I may be missing something. This caught my eye though.
    Every Citizen should be forced to join the military? Do I understand that statement correctly? I hope not. Quakers, Amish and others who practices a pacific way of life would lose their freedom to practice their religious beliefs. Also every citizen includes me. Who in their right mind would want to give me a weapon and have me go out even for target practice? I just might end up accidentally shooting a fellow citizen. My shooting days are long over.

    I think the First Amendment gives me the right to protest this and I do so.

    "Some of you young men think that war is all glamour and glory,
    but let me tell you, boys, it is all hell!"
    -General William T. Sherman,
    speech 1880 from which we derive the phrase "War is hell"
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  13. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Eh? When some bearded dude in Hinterwaldistan beats his wife, shags his sheep and then fries them as kebab and occasionally beheads infidels, that is lamentable, and tragic for the wife, delicious as far as the Kebab itself is concerned, and bad for the poor guy who haplessly wandered into that godforsaken place - but it does not threaten America, her people, her security nor her existence.

    Likewise, how exactly does for instance female circumcision, a practice arguably anathema to American values, threaten the security or existence of America? And even if it did: Do you have an idea how for instance US armed forces can fix that? Say, by occupation and grand scale social engineering of the societies that use that practice?

    To me that insistence that there are threats out there everywhere, that must be checked, lest the enemy will be at the gates any moment, betrays a sense of immature insecurity.
    Eh, kid, have you ever been to Switzerland? If you had, that conservative paradise of your narrative would have probably revealed itself, at least to your prying eyes, as a socialist dystopia.

    The same for the Czech Republic. And what about Germany - we're having a conservative government for almost a decade now. Does that make Germany a conservative country? I'd be quite thrilled to learn more about that.
     
    8people, joacqin, Nakia and 2 others like this.
  14. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Hah, Raggers is here handing out some beat downs. Shít just got real.
     
    Blades of Vanatar likes this.
  15. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Is it not the most OBVIOUS of facts that nobody here in America wants to take over another country, let alone have another join us willingly. That kind of makes this discussion redundant. :)

    We like our lives just the way they are. Mix in more cultures and more restrictive change comes our way. Screw that. I love America just the way it is with it's Water Parks, Gun Ranges, Jimmy Fallon, Micro-Breweries, Miami Beach, Outlet Malls, Kate Upton, Boobs in general, Public/Private school options, Miami Beach, the 4+ plus years of Party-life otherwise known as College, Girls Gone Wild, Mike Tyson, Howard Stern, Insane Presidential Election Processes, Miami Beach, Cheeseburgers, Paris Kardashian Brangeilnas, Super Bowl ads, Comic Books, French Fries, Greasy haired lawyers who "have connections", Dunkin Donuts, Miami Beach, *Beer in general, Geore Lucas, Diners for late night DUI avoidance, Movies like Super-Troopers and Super Bad, Butterbean, The Sopranos, HBO, Internet Porn, Miami Beach, Las Vegas, Aspen, Miami Beach, Hulk Hogan, New Orleans, NYC.... hell, believe it or not I even love New Jersey.;)

    (*Disclaimer - I do NOT love Budweiser products. I don't know how Anheiser-Busch hoodwinked America in believing it's the King of Beers. It's just plain old horrible stuff...)
     
    Gaear and (deleted member) like this.
  16. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Well, other than the OP. :)

    Also, in your list of thing you love, you left out Honey Poo Poo. Or Boo Boo. Whatever. :)
     
  17. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I love the diversity of our cultures. The ability to get junk food at places like MacDonald or fancy French food. I love New York city with its 800 languages and its crooked house among other things. The varied landscape from the Arctic to the sub-tropic and the stretches of deserts with their plant and animal life. The fact that I can watch British sit-coms on public television or an ancient western. I love our rather naive tendency to be a sucker for a sob-story. I love that we are willing to help others in the times of disaster. I love our board-walks. I love the Olympic Peninsula in Washington state with its rain forest and being able to look across the water to Canada.I love having Canada as a neighbor. I love our Constitution and will defend it. I love the fact that I can gripe and complain about my government.

    I do not love our drawn out, sound bite, mud sling presidential elections or for that matter state elections. I do not like the use of the word American to describe the residents and citizens of the USA but haven't come up with a replacement. A few other things I won't get into here because it is redundant.

    I have absolutely no desire to take over the world. Too many problems and we have enough of our own. I might let Australia, New Zealand and Canada into the Union but I think they are happy being their own countries which is fine with me.
     
  18. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    Just not that 2nd Amendment part? :p
     
  19. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    Actually I will defend that although I think it like the First Amendment is misunderstood. It was as I understand it set up to give the States and their people the right to maintain a militia in case of need. I believe all the states have that called the National Guard a wonderful and worthy organization. It was a big help to us in New Jersey during Frankenstorm Sandy.

    Nakia resists temptation to make snippy comments about protecting us from tyranny.
     
  20. Gaear

    Gaear ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful

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    Your interpretation is quite incorrect. Have a look here for modern developments as to what rights the Supreme Court of the United States has held the 2nd Amendment to protect, via District of Columbia v. Heller, 2008.

    Excerpt from FindLaw:

    Would you say that you still love and defend our constitution in toto? I'm not calling into question your right to disagree, only the accuracy of your statement.
     
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