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English is English... Except if It's English

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Fantastic argument!
     
  2. Bion Gems: 21/31
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    Also, some phonetic shortcuts can help in speaking Aussie.

    For example, when saying "Melbourne," think "Melbin"...
     
  3. Darkwolf Gems: 18/31
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    Wow, such passion for what a sport is called. Football played with a round ball (trying to avoid offending :lol: ;) ) is really not that popular in America. It has some regional and ethnic popularity, but Americans in general don't enjoy watching or participating in it, and are not going to try to differentiate between 2 sports with the same name. That said there are some areas where soccer (sorry, but it is just easier) is very popular, and there is some attempt to call it by a more traditional name, "futball", phonetically pronounced as it is spelled, but it is pretty spotty.

    Personally, I am not offended if some people want to call American Football "Gridiron". It wouldn't matter to me if a majority of Americans, or the owners of the NFL, started calling it gridiron and its generic name changed to that. I am sorry if it offends, but getting worked up over what a sport is called seems a little, well either obsessive or petty. Isn't life too short to get worked up over something like that? :confused:
     
  4. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yeah, Darkwolf. For some reason the 'football' people are the only ones getting all upset about the word 'soccer'. The 'soccer' people don't really care if other people call it 'football'.
     
  5. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Football is becoming more and more popular in the US and I think they will win the World Cup within the next 12 years.

    I don't think anyone gets upset or offended by the word 'soccer', it's just very annoying. Imagine somone poking you in the back of the head, you turn around and tell them it's annoying and they shouldn't do it, but they carry on regardless. it's kind of like that.
     
  6. Bion Gems: 21/31
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    Why do Euros get upset when Yanks call Football "Soccer", while Yanks wouldn't be bothered if Euros called American Football "Gridiron"? Simple: Yanks tend to think of Football/Soccer as more of a women's sport, and that apparently annoys Euros to no end. Euros could perhaps yank the Yanks' chains a bit by setting up "Women's Gridiron" as an olympic sport, but just calling American Football "Gridiron" won't cut it.

    That being said, Soccer isn't the only women's sport the US has imported from GB... ;)
     
  7. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Bion, now you're just deliberately stirring things.

    Let's get back on topic. In New Zealand, we call that thing that holds water a 'bucket' but in other places, you might call it a 'pail'.
     
  8. Halk Gems: 1/31
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    Hmm, can't find a button to quote a post. Never mind! :)

    Anyway, the island is called Great Britain.

    And again, back to 'soccer'. It's not the name soccer that's offensive, it's the attempt to rename the game by nations that have only recently taken up the sport.

    The USA is such an important country these days that it's not possible to ignore their media, or their spin on things. With the USA calling it Soccer, and Europe calling it Football, nations outside of Europe and North America are then faced with a choice over what to call it. All of a sudden 'soccer' seems acceptable because that's what the USA calls it.

    My real name is Dave. Everybody I know calls me Dave, David or Davie. If suddenly 50 new people started working with me, going to the same places as me at night, etc etc, and they all called me Mike... then I'm going to start getting called Mike. Wouldn't please me!

    Football doesn't belong to America to rename, that's what I think the problem is.
     
  9. Barmy Army

    Barmy Army Simple mind, simple pleasures... Adored Veteran

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    Say that to Roy Keane, Bion :lol: .
    Football is the best sport on this Earth, the US are finally being less self-obsessed and taking more interest in it and playing it more, rather than just sticking to their own pathetic excuses for sports :) .

    Biddaboom.
     
  10. Bion Gems: 21/31
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    Yeah, I guess I was kinda taking the piss. But the women's rugby is kinda intense, no? And, actually, right before I wrote that post, I saw a mother walking with her daughter, who couldn't have been more than 3 years old, and who was completely kitted out for soccer, including tiny little cleats, shinguards, etc...

    Back to the topic: What about when editors try to selectively shift content in books from, say, an American to a British context. Like the first Harry Potter being called "Sorcerer's Stone" in the US (because, apparently, us Merkins is too stupid to get "Philosopher's Stone").

    I recently read this so-so cyberpunk novel called "Market Forces" by a Brit named Richard Morgan, which had some of the most ham-handed attempts to "Americanize" a book I've seen in a while. One of the most glaring was having a major character sitting in his office playing with a "baseball bat", in a novel set in some future dytopic London no less. Not only was he described practicing a bunch different swings, including one as though he were thrown a "curveball", but at one point he was even polishing his bat! Now, first of all, Brits don't play baseball, so you have to wonder what he's doing with the bat. Second, you don't have nearly the variety of swings in baseball that you do in cricket, so while someone might practice their "swing" they wouldn't practice their swings. Third, you don't have a special swing just for curveballs, it's more a matter of adjusting your swing (I'm guessing in the original the "curveball" was a "googly"). Fourth, no one sits around polishing their baseball bat; if there was a similar kind of kit-fetish in baseball, it would be with baseball gloves, which are lovingly oiled for suppleness and flexibility and occasionally tied tightly with a baseball in the webbing to make a decent pocket....
     
  11. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Nice points, Bion. I always find it a bit insulting to Americans when people 'Americanise' things like that as if they're going to be too dumb to understand. That Harry Potter one was a classic. What on earth was the point of changing the name of the book (and movie) like that? No kid knows what a philosopher's stone is anyway, no matter what country they live in.
     
  12. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    I did when I was a kid. :p

    And "Sorcerer's Stone" is intrinsically stupid.

    Alas, no. Great Britain is the product the union of 1707 between England and Scotland. The island's name has been Britain since Roman times.
     
  13. Felinoid

    Felinoid Who did the what now? ★ SPS Account Holder

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    Ditto. And I be as Americanisationed as ya can git, y'all. :lol:
     
  14. Late-Night Thinker Gems: 17/31
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    Not to be an ugly American, but I must point out a few things...

    When I was just a young LNT, I played soccer/football and their were females on the team. When I got older, my high school had an all female soccer/football team and so does the college I attend now.

    There are no female football/gridiron teams, or if there are, they are an obscure curiosity. In fact, most high schools have a day where the cheerleaders play football and the football players cheer. It is meant to be comical but actually comes off more as homo-erotic...but hey, maybe that is just me.

    American football requires quite a bit more physical strength than soccer, but even more importantly, at least in a comparative sense, it requires the player to be significantly more violent.

    Physical strength and violence are masculine qualities. Hence football is manlier than soccer.

    That is not to say that soccer is not a great sport and loads of fun, I just would not fear for my life if I stepped onto a professional soccer field.
     
  15. Halk Gems: 1/31
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  16. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Hmm... Great Britain is mostly a political term, but it looks like it isn't such a modern invention. You won't really hear Great Britain as a geographical term outside the UK, I think. Anyway, thanks for that one. ;)

    @LNT: A coed football team? :eek: It's common knowledge that girls can kick boys' ass in football if they try, so they may as well play in one team, but I just hope there was no politics, quotas and locker room problems surrounding that idea. :p
     
  17. Halk Gems: 1/31
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    About girls and boys in football.

    I'm guessing here. But is the case in America that the boys play American football, and the girls play Association Football. And the boys that aren't any good at American Football play Association Football?

    Other than that I can't place why girls would be better than boys.

    At the moment though, FIFA runs separate mens and womens football teams. I think that's because women currently can't compete with men, but in the future I'd like to see that dropped, and just have teams.

    As for manly/feminine. Over here we play Rugby Football (Union rules). It's basically American Football without padding, helmets, and breaks every 4 seconds for a cheeseburger. And yes that's me winding you up now :)
     
  18. chevalier

    chevalier Knight of Everfull Chalice ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    Nah, just saying girls could play as well as guys. It's a male sport for cultural reasons, I guess, or maybe it appeals to men more strongly than to women. In violent versions of the game, guys will obviously have an edge but in civilised running after the ball, European style? But perhaps there is something I don't know.
     
  19. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Hmmmm. I know there's a topic buried in here and I know it's not football, because then the thread would be in Whatnots. The topic is the English language -- let's stick to that, shall we?
     
  20. Iago Gems: 24/31
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    I think the name derives from Britain. Great Britain is the part behind Britain, that's a tad bigger. Therefore Bretagne and Grande-Bretagne. Britain than logicially would end up being Britanny. Because naming it Britanny would allow people to chose freely between Great-Britain and Britan and use, interwinde and interchange those terms as if they were synonyms.
     
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