Duregar Hostility

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Oh, baloney. No spell can ever truly replace an item that has a continuous effect of nearly the very same level of ability. Wearing the bracers can give you 1 more casting of some other useful spell that you don't have to otherwise waste on yourself for lack of an item giving the same continuous effect.


Still, by this point in the game, those +4 bracers are fairly common, thus making that monk's tomb relatively worthless for the treasure.

 

I agree.

kmonster, the same argument would go for every other item you could equip your arcane or divine spellcasters with, since a lot of it can be simulated by buff spells, even weapons. But your casters spellbooks would be filled with buffs and not much else.

Well, looks like I am the only one thinking the bracers are useful at that point.

 

Ironhawk, another point about an item vs a spell that I forgot. You cannot dispel the continuous effect (i.e. the AC bonus) given by the item.

I'm not saying that those +4 bracers are not useful per se. Just that they don't seem worth the trouble of defeating 4 iron golems (which I'd do for no other reason than the challenge).

 

In IWD2 getting dispelled is nothing to worry about.
At that point of the game "mage armor" lasts longer than a rest, you have lots of level 1 mage spells and hardly any use for them, mages can cast high level spells and get several attacks per round with their magic weapons.

If you wear those bracers you also can't wear more useful things in this slot, like gauntlets.

 

Hardly any use for level 1 mage spells???

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm..

Chromatic Orb - stuns enemies at about 7th level I think, for a long time too, hardly useless.

Magic Missle - 9th level, 5 missles, quick way to do some damage or possibly disrupt a spellcaster

Ray of enfeeblement - a loss of 15 strength is a lot you know..

As for lots of lv 1 spell slots, you get about 7 or something, so just double up on these and you'll be fine. You don't NEED the armor spell, just bracers ALRIGHT. Mages don't need bracers other than those, like weapon specialisation, WHEN are they going to fight, so get over it. Good? OK? Alright then..

 

Magic missile: 10-25 damage, just pathetic at this point of the game. Even a mage can do more physical damage per round at this point of the game with a proper weapon.
We're not talking about BG. In 3E games like IWD2 even pure mages can do serious damage without spells.
It's not worth pausing several times a day to cast MM. When you take the effort to pause you might as well cast a more useful higher level spell.

Ray of enfeeblement and chromatic orb have a low DC to save against, easier by 6 compared to "dominate person" for example.

For me having 13 instead of 14 level 1 mage spells per rest doesn't matter much, maybe you have a different playing style, so the bracers are very useful for you.

 

Kmonster is correct. (I feel like I say this a lot).

When evaluating an item that gives a spell effect, ask:

1. How powerful is the effect?
2. What level spell is it replicating, and from what caster? (arcane spells are more valuable than cleric spells in general)
3. What is the duration of the spell it replaces?
4. Could you get the spell from a wand or potion instead?
5. What other items could go in that slot?


In this case the answers are:
1. +4 Armor bonus to AC on an unarmored character is great. (Shield spell is even better because it gives +7, but has poor duration and is self-cast only).
2. First level arcane spell. Chromatic Orb etc are nice, but we can safely give up one or two a day for this.
3. VERY LONG. At higher levels, Mage Armor lasts "overnight", even.
4. Yes, you can get 1-hour Mage Armors from wands. There are at least two such wands in the game, and I think more in stores.
5. Bracers that give +1 to hit (many); Bracers that give +1 to hit and +2 to damage (at least one); Bracers that give +1 attack/round if you have a monk level (these may be HOF only, I forget); Winter Wolf Gloves.

Conclusion: Cast Mage Armor or get it from a wand, and put something good in your glove slot.

Now, on the other end of the scale, a hat that gave permanent Exec. Eyes would be crazy powerful, since it is a 9th level arcane spell that (unfortunately) normally only lasts 10 rounds. Also the hat slot isn't especially important in my experience.

 

Maybe I just consider the spell useless NOW because I just finished the game with my solo rogue/wizard and I'm wearing the Chain of Drakkas..

Although yes, before then I DID come across a pair of those wonderful bracers and wore them for a brief period! It might be worth noting that not much actually touched me in the first place up untill the last chapter though and my mirror images worked wonders for me.

Later on I found the Guantlets of Weapon Specialization (Is that what they're called?), which only gives a +1 attack bonus and +2 damage bonus, pretty pointless in ch. 6 but I guess every little bit helps..

 

Side note: Actually, I think that the Shield spell has a minor error in it. From the PHB, it should provide a Shield bonus to AC, not the Armor bonus that it provides in IWD2. If it were set to being a Shield bonus, it would be able to stack with Mage Armor.

Oh, there's no doubt that Mage Armor's 1 hr/level duration is great.

If we're talking about any sort of mage, why would they give a crap about wearing these sorts of bracers? They'd probably rather wear something like the Bracers of Icelandic Pearl, which gives +4 AC and some decent spells.

OTOH, if we're talking about monks, that's a different story.

Related question about monks... Exactly what sorts of "armor" are monks privented from wearing? Any item in the "armor/robe" slot? Just "armor" items in the armor/robe slot? Something else?


I can see the value of a monk not wanting to use bracers of defense, when there are other more useful bracers/gauntlets for a monk to use. But I really don't see it for mages.

Such a hat would also be crazy expensive, even if it were a once a day casting. I should know. I've been creating all these various items for my mod and have discovered the considerable expense of items that can cast mid to upper level spells.

I think that such a hat would probably cost about 55,000 gp just to cast ExEyes once a day.

 

Crucis, why the mage/non-mage distinction? Every character can benefit from Mage Armor (remember the "why do IWD2 armors suck" thread), melee-types most of all. Likewise, every character can benefit from a to-hit bonus; when your sorcs aren't casting they should be firing ranged weapons.

IME monks are hosed by anything in the armor slot, even a robe. Cloaks are fine, because they go in the cloak slot.

My "dream hat" would give continuous E.E. but only for the character wearing it. Once/day would be a lot less good; a free extra 9th level spell each day is nothing to sneeze at, but E.E. is only the 5th best or so of the nine 9th level spells.

 

Well then. It looks like it is better to not equip any of the chars with either weapons or armor.

Just buff them up with a lot of spells.

Hmmm.... that would be really cool, If they are naked, the Hide checks would be interesting.

Wooo I'm invisible! Anybody reads Order of the Stick?

 

Because Mage Armor's AC is "armor" AC which would not stack with any character actually wearing real armor. For the most part, mages, monks, and perhaps bards (or some combination thereof) would be the only characters not wearing any sort of armor. This is why Ghost Armor is such a good spell for armor-wearing characters, since G.A.'s AC is of the "deflection" type, not "armor" type AC.

OK. So if someone wanted to make a tunic or a Gi for monks, it'd have to be worn in some other slot.

As I understand the cost calculations, continuous ExEyes would cost 1,224,000 gp. OUCH!!!

While I agree that EE is not in the top 2 level 9 spells, an item that gave ExEyes, continuous or even 1/day, would be a particularly great item for a tank.

 

Crucis, we went over this back in the previously mentioned thread. Mage Armor + max Dex + Cat's Grace beats physical armor + some Dex. Warriors can easily max STR, DEX, *and* CON by dumping mental stats. Cleric/Druid/Bards can max STR, CON, and their casting stat, dump two mental stats, and still have a 16 DEX. There might be some weird and probably suboptimal build that wears physical armor because could not afford a good DEX, but anyway the majority of powergamed characters will go the naked AC route.

E.E once/day would be nice if it came early enough in the game. Obviously it is less impressive late, when your party mages can cast DBF and Wilting and are already thinking about how they will *reject* the chance to learn E.E. Would it be wearer-only, or would it "cast" it on the entire party?

The 10 round thing is such a mood killer for me. If I were to rebalance IWD2, I would at the very least double its duration. Does the spell appear in any other D&D games or rulebooks?

 

I guess that this is a discussion that I'm sick of cuz it feels so much like cheating and "gaming the system".

I wish that the BG2 spell Maze was in IWD2, cuz it would seriously hurt those powergamed characters with their silly-low INTs. It would be amusing to see Saablic Tan maze a dumb tank into oblivion for 1d6 minutes (!) whereas a normal 9-12 INT tank would only get mazed for 4d4 rounds by comparison.


For that matter, I wish that dialogs were written so that they accounted for dealing with uberlow INT characters.

That's a tough question that I really can't answer, JT. From a technical standpoint, it's easy enough to make EE affect the wearer-only. But from a cost standpoint, I have no idea how to deal with the idea of embedding an area effect buffing spell into an item and having it only be wearer-only, and how to properly calculate the cost.

About the only thing that I do know is that a spell of such a short duration make it much more expensive to make into a continuous effect.

I looked in the 3.5 PHB and couldn't find it. I suppose that it could be under a different name. I just checked the 3.0 SRD and couldn't find ExEyes there either.

The 10 round thing doesn't bother me THAT much. I suppose that durations below 10 rounds is about the minimum for me to get "bothered". There are some mildly decent spells of shorter duration that I wish had better durations.

 

It's limited to 10 rounds because it IS a crazy spell to begin with. Think about it. Most weapons have a critical range from 19 - 20. By the time you are able to cast that spell on a regular basis, fighters in your party would probably have gotten the critical feat (+1 threat range) which now means 18 - 20. Some weapons AND other pieces of equipment give an extra 1 or 2. So add that on with the spell itself and you'll have some CRAZY damage accumulating..
Anything longer than 10 rounds would be a bit excessive. Now as for a hat that means a PERMANENT effect ... A little too overpowered don't you think?

But now we're off topic Better open a new thread.

 

Strange...I do remember a weapon with constant EE. effect...but it was so long ago...umm, was it a mod item (more likely)? Or HoF only item? Now I am not even sure if it was a weapon... But I definitely had such an item and it was cool!

 

Silverstar, it was one of the EoUse's "improved" bastard swords.

 

Yeah, you must be right...I no longer have that component of the mod as...well I thought it was cheesy.

 

It was cheesey. IIRC, the particular bastard sword that had EE was Know Thy Family.

To the best of my memory, the problem with the official bastard swords wasn't their quality, but a lack of good ones. Overpowering the existing ones only made them look cheesey and didn't increase the number of options.

 

MM is still my way of choice to take down enemies with Mirror Image.