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Duncan - Do you believe he is dead or alive? Discuss

Discussion in 'Dragon Age: Origins' started by Munchkin Blender, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
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    What are your thoughts on Duncan after the battle at Ostagar, do you believe is dead or alive?

    I believe he survived and here is why...

    You do not find his armor when you return to Ostagar. I'm not sure if the Darkspawns took him to the Archdemon to face his death later on or if he escaped with his life or what not, but as for the battle I believe he survived.

    Yes it does look his he was going to loose his head with the darkspawn with the axe but I have a feeling he was able to avoid the attack and escape or was captured.

    Thoughts....
     
  2. Alavin

    Alavin If I wanted your view, I'd read your entrails Veteran

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    I think you might be right. I did notice the lack of his corpse, and thought it strange that the Ostagar DLC would focus around Cailan, who I felt was a very weak character. Duncan (as much as I disliked him, and said as much to Alistair at every opportunity) had a hell of a reputation wherever he went - it'd surprise me not a bit if he reappears in a sequel/expansion/DLC.
     
  3. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    I say he's dead. The armor was probably destroyed or taken by other darkspawn (obviously, not all the darkspawn from the Ostagar battle remained at Ostagar).
     
  4. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    According to David Gaider, Duncan is dead:

    He wrote this in a post on the Dragon Age official forum to clear this up a while ago: link (scroll down).
     
  5. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    And... end conspiracy. Nice find Caradhras.
     
  6. CelticDream

    CelticDream I play well with others... others, not you Veteran

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    Mind if I ask why you disliked Duncan? I thought he was a great character - firm and strong in his beliefs, very up front as to what he thought, doesn't mince words when he's stating a fact or opinion (i.e. his conversation with the Dalish PC), tests you to see your strengths/weaknesses (seen depending on what conversation choices you make, esp as an city elf), and has a soft spot for the new wardens, as was said by Riordan later on in the game. To me he came off as a kind and caring father figure who took no crap.
     
  7. Alavin

    Alavin If I wanted your view, I'd read your entrails Veteran

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    My biggest issue with him is the way he deals with the warden candidate who tries to back out (I forget the guy's name). When you try to call him on him stabbing a terrified man who only wanted to leave, his response is "Well, I told him there was no backing out." I don't see that as a great justification, and crucially the game doesn't give an opportunity to question him fully about it - the characters automatically drop the subject, when I'd rather like to ask Duncan why exactly his murder was acceptable.

    Then there's the potential in the origin (at least the human noble one, only other one I've tried is the mages) where he basically says "I'll save your life, but only if you pledge yourself to the Grey Wardens." Character's response: "I'm not abandoning my parents to the men coming to kill them!" Duncan: "Well you don't really get a say. I'm enslaving you now, let's go. Leave your parents to die here." I know, the origin has to end with the PC leaving with Duncan or there's no game, but I feel that if they want me to feel some affection for Duncan, the writers can come up with a better way of doing it than this.

    Also everyone in the in-game world seems to know and love Duncan, and I find this suspicious.
     
  8. CelticDream

    CelticDream I play well with others... others, not you Veteran

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    Ser Jory is the warden candidate who tries to back out. Thing is, it's stated from the beginning (once you hear of the ritual) that you can't go back. Once you make the decision to join the Wardens, it's do or die. If you talk to Duncan after the fact, choosing the conversation option "I can't believe you killed Ser Jory", he's not happy with the fact that it had to be done, tells you again that he knew from the start that backing out wasn't an option, and that when Jory drew his blade, Duncan had no choice but to retaliate - if you watch the cut-scene, you notice that Jory is the first one to draw his weapon, not Duncan.

    With the human noble, yes, it's basically join the Wardens or die by Arl Howe's hands, if you're unable to escape on your own. Even Teryn Cousland agrees with it and says "At least our son/daughter won't die by Arl Howe's hands" and, depending on your conversation choices, even begs the son/daughter to join so that he/she can live on with the chance of carrying out vengeance later on. Duncan is basically offering a way out as well as giving the PC a chance to make something of themselves that otherwise, being a 2nd son or daughter they couldn't be.

    Since you haven't done the dwarf or elf origins, I won't spoil it there, but suffice to say, he gives them a way to get out of rough situations which will also help them better themselves and save Ferelden at the same time.

    As far as why 'everyone' in the in-game world seems to know and love Duncan, I have to say that Valendrian's words in the Alienage, during the time of the Landsmeet, sums it up nicely: "Duncan was a man who knew that talent could be found in the most unlikely of places." Basically, he didn't let racial prejudice run his beliefs - he treated all as equals. Since you said that you've played the mage origin, you should also realize that he does for a mage what others don't - he gives the mage a chance to really shine and be who they are outside of the confines of the Circle, out from beneath the Chantry's rules and regulations. This is why others love and respect him - he pretty much shows respect in return. You get to see different sides of him and his personality with each origin that you play. I've played them all so I've seen the man that the game portrays and can easily understand why he's been made the leader of the Wardens in Ferelden.
     
  9. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    IMO Duncan is everything a Grey Warden should be and as a result he is a real bastard.

    He seems to care about the people but he cares more about fighting the Blight than righting wrongs (if you're feeling generous you may say that he knows better than getting involved in matters that he can do little about but I don't think that's relevant given what he could do given his position -although that makes it difficult for him to intervene in certain matters like taking sides with the elves in the City Elf origin as there is no way for him to be involved directly in a conflict with nobles).

    He is definitely a LN character, one who believes in the greater good and doing whatever is needed to accomplish his objectives. He is certainly not a good character as he is ruthless and unforgiving in his dedication.

    Some origins make it easier to see him as a good guy (especially the Dalish origin).

    I'm not saying he is evil by the way. I'm just saying that he is not "good" in the way a D&D Paladin would be good (or at least should be). Duncan wouldn't shrink from sacrificing himself and others if it meant putting an end to the Blight.

    Regarding Ser Jory, I've always found Duncan's attitude heavy handed. Given that he is a high level Rogue he could have disarmed Ser Jory or kicked him in the nuts instead of killing him outright. The "I'm sorry" line only shows his stupidity because as far as having an eye for talent it should have been obvious to Duncan that Ser Jory was no Warden material.

    Of course Ser Jory is only there to act as a decoy to show the PC that the only alternative to the Joining would be death so there is no other way out. It also shows that the Grey Warden ethos is not particularly forgiving and that there is no room for weakness or mercy.

    I'd like to point out the fact that in the PC's shoes Duncan may have ignored the whole Redcliffe situation because it had nothing to do with fighting the Blight. Alistair himself doesn't force the matter despite the fact that he has ties in Redcliffe. There is a certain callousness and ruthlessness that seems to be part of being a Grey Warden.

    As far as Duncan being well known and popular it is probably the result of a certain tendency to be some sort of Gary Stu and the great thing is that he dies early on so the PC and Alistair have a chance to grow into characters of heroic proportions.

    Riordan is an interesting character because he shows many similarities with Duncan. He is the one who comes up with the idea of recruiting Loghain and that is something that in the same circumstances Duncan would have done. Alistair is too soft to walk in their footsteps but that's also what makes him a more likable character (and also a much weaker heroic figure that allows the PC to take charge instead of being relegated to the role of a mere sidekick since Alistair is supposedly the senior Grey Warden).

    In the end, what does it mean to be a Grey Warden? Having a practical mind so you don't hold on grudges to recruit your foe to serve against the Blight, being able to kill someone who shows weakness like Ser Jory and being willing to sacrifice oneself and others in a heartbeat so that the Blight could be stopped.
     
  10. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
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    Can you skip the undead monsters in Red Cliff? If so, how?
     
  11. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Short answer: no.

    Long answer: you have two choices in Redcliffe; either help Bann Teagan and defend the village or choose not to get involved and find out later that the village has fallen. If you abandon Redcliffe you have more undead monsters to contend with in the castle so it probably evens out as far as XP is concerned (in case you're worred about losing XP for not going through the battle to defend the village).
     
  12. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
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    So you can skip helping the city and just move onto the castle. That is good to know.
     
  13. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    You have to leave first (and come back at a later time obviously).
     
  14. CelticDream

    CelticDream I play well with others... others, not you Veteran

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    Yeah I found that out accidentally once - wanted to head back to camp for some reason and Tomas (?) was crying about us leaving and aren't we going to stay and help, blah blah, cry, whine... I was thinking "D'oh, I'm just going to camp, what's the big deal? We'll be back for the battle." Come to find out, if you leave, even to go to camp, the town of Redcliffe is obliterated by the undead... deleted that PC because I was bored with her anyways, so I don't know if Bann Teagan survived it or not.
     
  15. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    He had to, otherwise there would be no way to get to the castle.
     
  16. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
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    I wonder if the character in DAII will come across Duncan's body and give him a properly burial, take his armor, and that is why Duncan's armor was not there.... :)
     
  17. Rawgrim Gems: 21/31
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    Duncan is dead. The writers confirmed it on the Bioware forums.
     
  18. Marceror

    Marceror Chaos Shall Be Sown In Their Footsteps Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    According to David Gaider, quoted by Caradhras earlier in this post:
    Duncan is dead. If he appears again, it would have to be in a story that takes place prior to Origins, if anything.

    I assume that "appears again" applies to his corpse. And even if you did find his corpse, I'm sure his equipment would have long since been looted.
     
  19. Shoshino

    Shoshino Irritant Veteran

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    Morrigan tells the PC that the darkspawn are dragging bodies into the tunnels, I always assumed he had been dragged away
     
  20. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
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    I'm referring to the fact the PC in DAII could run across his body. The armor I see the PC using in DAII looks almost like Duncan's armor; that is why I'm making an estimated guess that the PC in DAII could run into the corpse, AKA - Darkspawn Duncan, in DAII.

    I'm not disagreeing with his death; I'm just trying to figure out what happened to his amor. I would of liked to have my thief character using his armor in my DAO game. It was one of the best looking armors in the game, but you can't use it.
     
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