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Dual Classing

Discussion in 'BG2: Throne of Bhaal (Classic)' started by pokeyloki, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. pokeyloki Gems: 3/31
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    I'm trying to create a character in BG1(tutu) who I can dual class later in the game. This is so I can have one of the kits included, as compared to multi-class

    What I'm having trouble with is that there seem to be so many factors involved in what qualifies a character to dual class that I'm getting kind of frustrated.

    Is there some kind of table that explains what type of character, like a fighter can dual class to, say, a mage or thief or should it be the other way around, and what ability scores, and alignment, and etc that the character needs (at creation) to be able to dual to the desired class?

    I found my old Shadows of Amn manual, and it doesnt have the info, and Ive tried a search on Boards, but then what happens is I get lost in all the other good info and forget what I'm looking for or just plain ol' short attention span

    I'm confused...
     
  2. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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  3. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Easy, your character needs at least 15 in the main ability of your first class and 17 in the ability of the second class.

    Let's say you want to dual a Fighter (Berserker) into a Mage, all you have to do is create a character with at least 15 points in STR and at least 17 points in INT.

    So to sum this up, you need STR for fighters, DEX for thieves, INT for mages, WIS for clerics.

    You can make a Ranger (Beastmaster)/Cleric or a Cleric (Lathander)/Ranger but then you'll need uber stats because Ranger has several required abilities (STR, CON, WIS iirc it's been a while since I've made one of these so anyone feel free to correct me). Of course you'll need to have a Good alignment.

    I think thieves can't be lawful good iirc but alignment matters for Druids, in BG druids have to be true neutral.

    You can make a Fighter/Druid DC if you put at least 15 points in STR and at least 17 in WIS and CHA.

    When in doubt, the best way is to create a character in SoA and see what valid dual classing options you get, this way you don't have to start over once you reach level 2 in BG tutu.

    I hope that helps.
     
  4. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    I think you are correct though I recall the game having one of the ranger stats wrong (it required you to have the correct stat high enough but didn't tell you the proper ones accurately if I remember right).

    I don't think I use tutu (so maybe that matters), but I was able to make a ranger of any type (including each of the kits)/cleric. But you may want to think over if you want to do something like an archer/cleric. Unless you want to be the best sling whipper in the the west don't dual class from an archer to a cleric (it makes it so you cannot use bows or crossbows-the best ranged weapons).
     
  5. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    There's more to it than that. There is an actual table in the game engine that, among other things, tells what classes can dual-class into what others.
     
  6. SlickRCBD Gems: 24/31
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    The files you want to examine with Infinity Explorer are all 2DA files. The ones you want to look at are

    DUALCLAS.2DA
    Tells you what can dual to what. Each line represents what your starting class is, and tells you what that class can dual to.

    ABDCSCRQ.2DA
    Tells you what minimum stats you need to be allowed to dual class. This is the minimum required by your CURRENT class. If you don't have them, you can't dual to anything.

    ABDCDSRQ.2DA
    Tells you the minimum stat you need to dual to a given destination class. If you don't have this minimum stat, you can't pick it as a class to dual to. You must meet BOTH the requirements of the source class (listed above) and the destination class.


    You can also view the default versions of these files at the IESDP site.
    http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/
     
  7. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    You must be using a mod because I don't think you can dual class a Stalker or an Archer into a Cleric. It's been a while since I've played BG2 but I think I would remember something like that. :)
     
  8. pokeyloki Gems: 3/31
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    As usual, everyone comes up with great info! (I slowly shake my head, stunned by the sheer awsomeness of it)

    I think this may be what was giving me trouble. So does this mean that these are more than just the minimum abilities required for that current class (that are rolled automatically and cant be subtacted from)? That there are higher ability requirements to qualify to dual class?

    Anyway, I'm of to research all the suggested references and find out more! Thanks to all, and I'll get back to let you know how it goes...
     
  9. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Like I posted above, you'll need at least 15 in the main ability of your first class and 17 in the main ability of your second class.

    For example you want to make a Thief (Swashbuckler) dualled into Cleric, you need at least 15 points in DEX and 17 in WIS. ;)
     
  10. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    Did you try with the right stats high enough? I did it with SoA no mods. So yes I've made a non-mod stalker/cleric and a non-mod archer/cleric (note the downside I mentioned about the latter).

    A problem you may have run into is that I believe you need a 15 min in multiple stats to dual a ranger into a cleric (in addition to the 17+ Wis). Thus if you are missing the right stat score somewhere it doesn't work. Whoever said that Beastmasters were the only ranger kit that could dual-class may have made this mistake and assumed it was a kit rather than stat related problem.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  11. ChickenIsGood Gems: 23/31
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    I remember trying to make a stalker/cleric, but it didn't work out. At the time I thought it was just because I didn't have the correct stats, but it may just be impossible.
     
  12. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Believe me I did try with maxed stats (18 all over and it didn't work). In my experience of the game the only kit you can dual is the Beastmaster kit. That is just weird.

    Edit: Just tested it: screenshot. I can't dual a stalker or an archer (with the same stats).

    Do you have the fixpack?

    Or perhaps it was changed by ToB? (I never played SoA only).
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  13. pplr Gems: 18/31
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    I think that was it. When I started ToB I duplicated my SoA game and all its files. That way I had more options both in case something went wrong and if I wanted to give myself items (cheating, but with no mods added) before continuing in ToB. I still don't have my ToB game set up for cheating for any sort (thus I have a totally legit wild mage, but that isn't causing the ranger kit problem here).

    I made a totally unmoded stalker (no cheats, no additional items) with SoA and could dual class to a cleric. The dual class option was highlighted and I saved the game and used it just to make sure it would work. It did.

    Then I went to back to the save before I dual classed to a cleric and saved it again (to make a duplicate save where it said I could dual class to a cleric).

    I then moved the 2nd save into my ToB save (saved games) folder and loaded running ToB. The dual class option wasn't highlighted anymore.

    Thus it appears they took away the options for dual classing archers and stalkers in ToB when it worked fine in SoA.

    This means they are shrinking dual classing options with additional expacs and games.

    I say that because you had the option of dual classing to a specialist mage in BG1 and they took that away in SoA. The new classes and kits made up for it but it appears that trend continued in ToB where stalkers and archers cannot dual class anymore but wild mages are a new class.

    Thus If you want to get a stalker cleric you have to start the stalker in SoA without ToB. Once you dual class I don't think there is a way for the game to undo it when you do switch to a version with ToB.

    I didn't realize it wasn't a stat problem but a ToB problem until today. Thanks for the observations ChickenisGood and effort Caradhras.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  14. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    Glad we could sort this one out. In any case Stalkers and Archers wouldn't perfectly match a Cleric class. No bows makes it quite silly for a Archer and no bladed weapons would mean the Stalker would have to use a quarterstaff to backstab (which IMO is way too ridiculous).

    Actually Ranger/Cleric being such an overpowered class, the Beastmaster/Cleric should offer a more challenging game because that kit is not considered to be that good (I haven't really tried it yet to be honest).
     
  15. Al the Dumb Gems: 2/31
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    Continuing on this one...

    Is it possible to create (possibly through cheating) a triple class character?

    Seventh level kensai Dual to thief in BG tutu, (which gets to 8th level) then to mage in BGII after the thief hits ninth level?

    And in this instance I'm even willing to cheat.

    Thanks, Al
     
  16. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    The only way I can think of would be to dual the kensai to a thief, then use SK to change to a single-class thief, then dual to a mage. But then I think you would lose your kensai abilities. You could test it (using the console to give yourself the necessary XP) and see what happens.
     
  17. Klorox

    Klorox Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! Veteran

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    Or a Club.

    I know they changed the term to "sneak attack" in 3e, which is more appropriate. The description remained very similar though, and it was perfectly legal in 2e to "backstab" with a blunt object.
     
  18. Al the Dumb Gems: 2/31
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    I tried this, regrettably it failed, both with experience given through Clua and through Sk. It also failed with my current character in BG, who is a fighter mage (dual) It would need a scary statted character to play anyway.

    Thanks, Al
     
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