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Don Sterling banned for life from the NBA

Discussion in 'Colosseum' started by Beren, Apr 30, 2014.

  1. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    His comments were reprehensible, but was a life time ban justified?

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...-angeles-clippers-owner-receives-life-ban-nba

    If anyone wants to know what exactly was said, here's an embedded YT video with the audio recording:



    A lot of players and such in the NBA think it fitting. There is the odd viewpoint that a life time ban goes too far, like this one from a Black radio broadcaster no less:

    http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/30/larry-elder-donald-sterling-ban-unfair/

    What do you think?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
  2. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Of course it was justified. He's a racist and a bigot and a misogynist and every other similar word you can think of. He really is a despicable person.

    And, as far as this is concerned, he did real damage to the NBA "brand" with those comments (note that the claimed first amendment rights are garbage as this is not government action).

    Thus, the CEO of the NBA, i.e., Adam Silver the Commissioner, had every right to do what he did. Plus, under the league constitution, the owners have the right to force a sale of the Clippers with a 75% vote and they are going to be 29-0 on this.

    Legally, Sterling does not have a leg to stand on.
     
  3. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Just to be clear, I personally think a life time ban was justified too. But I'm presenting more than one viewpoint to encourage debate about the extent of the penalty. ;)
     
  4. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Hey, at least he didn't use the "N" word, so he showed some restraint!

    But yeah, justified.
     
  5. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I agree the comments were pretty much as bas as you get. I wonder about the big picture here though as he didn't broadcast his comments out to the world. He was having a private conversation and it was recorded. By his GF. Why? Don't get me wrong, this guy is obviously a grade A a-hole, but he was ambushed here as well. If you can't speak with your GF without every word being recorded, put all over the internet and TV and analyzed, we have a pretty effed up society. The media frenzy sharks really took hold of this one.... god forbid anyone speaking how they really feel these days. We don't have to agree with the guy, I certainly don't, but yikes! the court of public opinion can be a bit over-reaching. I wonder where the line is these days on what we can and can't say and more importantly who gets to determine this? The media? That's pretty effing scary in my book.
     
    dogsoldier likes this.
  6. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Blades, that fact that these attitudes exist in the first place shows we have an effed up society (and I don't think for a minute that Sterling is a small minority of people who think like this - he just happened to get caught). Yes, the media likes to sensationalize everything; in this case, though, they got it right.
     
  7. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Yes, they now know what this guy thinks. Yay for the media. they now destroyed the devil. Let me ask you this... if this wasn't recorded and displayed and Sterling was still the owner, what impact would it have on our daily lives or even those in the NBA. The answer is there would be no impact as this guy hasn't broken any laws. Private thoughts and words should be sacred, regardless if we disagree with them or not. What about the next person whose words are not quite as drastic or strong, do they get persecuted by the masses as well? Again, where is the line drawn? Social media frenzy shouldn't be the judge.
     
  8. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Blades - you're missing a very important aspect of this.

    Put simply, there is nothing sacred about private words and thoughts. As an American citizen, sure, Don Sterling is entitled to be a racist bigot and not worry about the government coming down on him, taking his stuff, beating him up, putting him in prison, or some combo of those things.

    Guess what? He's still safe from that.

    However, as an owner of an NBA franchise, Don Sterling is no way protected from the fallout of his statements. This happened solely because there is a significant negative impact on the NBA as a whole. The other owners of the clubs (i.e., the rest of his little fraternity) suddenly felt the sting of the backlash and they didn't like it one bit. Some of them honestly felt that he was a bigoted dinosaur that needed to go. Others probably share his views but are a lot smarter about keeping their mouths shut.

    However, his private fraternity of owners was completely able to, in effect, kick him out of the frat house. It's private action. You have the right to have and express virtually any opinion you want. You don't have the right to be safe from the consequences of expressing that opinion. This is the 21st century. Everyone has a phone that can do lots of things including recording conversations. One report I read indicated he knew he was being recorded. His statements had the potential to cause really significant harm to his frat brothers and they rightfully kicked him out.

    As a further aside, we've known he's a racist bigot for years out here. It's just that David Stern didn't really want the fight to get rid of him and, in the past, his racist statements didn't have the ability to harm the rest of the frat. Now they do and now he must go.
     
  9. Splunge

    Splunge Bhaal’s financial advisor Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I agree with everything dmc said, and especially this:
    However, dmc is looking at this within the confines of the NBA, and the fact that the NBA has the right to take the action it did because of the harm done to the league. And dmc is of course doing so because he’s staying on topic.

    I however am looking at this from a somewhat broader (although admittedly off-topic) perspective:
    To say that there would be no impact if his comments hadn’t been made public is just flat-out wrong. The issue isn't about breaking laws – attitudes result in actions. And bigoted attitudes often result in bigoted actions. Whether he gets exposed or not is beside the point – it’s would be like saying that a criminal hasn’t done anything wrong until he actually gets caught (and no, I’m not saying that bigotry is the same as criminal activity, but they’re similar in that they’re both wrong). And to extend that analogy somewhat further, we put criminals in jail, not just to punish them for their actions, but to act as a deterrent to others. In the case of Sterling, if people see that there are consequences to bigotry, maybe they’ll change their ways. Their attitudes might not change, but at least they might think twice before they act on those attitudes. And that at least is a step in the right direction.
     
  10. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Amen. :thumb:
     
  11. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Justified or not, IMO the case just highlights the idiocy of the "masses".

    The NBA knew what kind of man Sterling was and didn't care as long as he adequately met his obligations as an owner. If they really cared about his character and didn't want to associate with him any longer because of it, they would have voted him out a long time ago. Sorry Sterling old chap, but we won't be inviting you to tea and crumpets any longer.

    All they cared about was the public outcry and how they could get it to go away without it clinging to anyone but Sterling.

    Some PR guru told them that to get out from under this effectively would take some action on their part, and more than mere condemnation; that they'd come out smelling like roses if they punished Sterling. That the public is easily manipulated into forgetting that the NBA didn't care what kind of man Sterling was if they punish him now. And it looks like the PR guru was right; hard to say if mere condemnation would have been enough to satisfy the "masses" though.

    To me that's the sad commentary here: First, that people were upset enough over his words that rather than just pointing out what a bad guy Sterling is, their anger threatened to spill over into the NBA if the NBA didn't do anything about it presumably because if they didn't do anything about it, that meant that they didn't care. Second, that just because the NBA did something about this incident makes the people think the NBA really cared about Sterling's racism. I mean really, if you're upset at the NBA because they allow someone like Sterling into their ranks how does punishing him now change that? His racism wasn't unknown until this incident.
     
  12. Blades of Vanatar

    Blades of Vanatar Vanatar will rise again Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I hear you guys and I am not in disagreement for the most part. In this case, this guy is a clear-cut bigot and pretty much most of the country will agree, as do I. But there is a caveat to this line of thinking when you are trying to use it to determine someone's fate. The coin then flips to the accuser. There is a responsiblity taken on by the accusers as well, it is about being very careful with what you started. These types of reactions ssnowball out of control more often then not. Think about the next case when the lines are little more blurred on what was said. What if the next case has less of the population in general in disagreement and it's someone in an elected position instead of a someone affiliated with a brotherhood/social memebership/fraternity/etc..? It will still be the same group that uses social media that will start the lynching process, which is not necessarily the opinion of the larger population, that casuses the ousting of the next person in question. I am not upset that this guy is ousted, like I said before, he is a Grade A a-hole with no doubts about it. It's the means of the process that bothers me. I don't like it and I don't agree with it. We go down this path and we start the climb down a very slippery slope.

    And yes, it ultimately has little to no impact on the NBA. Whether the comments are released or not and whether they oust him or not, it is back to business as usual in a month. Most will forget. I am right because that is how our society works these days. It's pathetic and distrubing, but it's the simple truth.
     
  13. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    BTA - I do not disagree in the slightest. You live here too and know what kind of an a-hole Sterling has been for decades. It's just that it never really attached to anyone else in the NBA worth considering.

    As I mentioned in one of my posts above, I suspect that there are other owners that share his viewpoint, I just think they are smarter in keeping their mouths shut. I'm not considering this from a particularly moral standpoint, just from a practical one.

    Morally, I think that most of the franchise owners are douches because, let's face it, to amass the kind of money you need to have to afford one of these teams, you pretty much need to be a right bastard, unless you inherited the money, in which case you folks were probably right bastards too.

    Blades - as far as public opinion, etc., the herd mentality is nothing new at all. Look at all the nonsense surrounding Bill Clinton's impeachment. People taking advantage of media and swaying opinions goes back centuries -- look at the yellow journalism that was going on with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson as well. It's just a lot faster now because of our technology.
     
  14. Arkite

    Arkite Crash or crash through Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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  15. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    Sterling is an ass and has mismanaged that team for decades. I personally can't wait to see who the new owner will be and I am sure that the sale will make hundreds of millions of dollars for Sterling. I actually think the team will be sold for a record price, even higher than the pundits are predicting.

    Now for the big however, I think what is being done to him is wrong and is setting a dangerous precedent for society. Let the person who has never said something inappropriate or offensive cast the first stone. I know that person won't be me. The thought that someone can and probably will record what people are saying for profit and fame is scary. I know I show up on plenty of videotape from parties in the 80s and 90s that I hope would never surface again. Who knows what I was saying and or doing at the time.

    Don't people have the right to be whatever they want to as long as they aren't interfering with someone else's right to do the same?

    The fact that we have an 80 year old guy who may or may not have cancer/dementia and doesn't have a lot of love for African Americans shouldn't be shocking news to anyone. That generation was raised and thinks differently then younger generations. If he was 22 with that type of attitude that would be more shocking. I'm sure he also doesn't like Germans and Japanese "Remember Pearl Harbor".

    I'm also sure that many of the current generations will never trust Muslims and will always consider them all terrorists. My grandchildren and great grandchildren will hopefully consider me horribly unenlightened.

    To keep this rant from becoming endless, did he actually "Do" anything that wrong? I don't believe so. He may have misguided opinions, but he is entitled to them, and because of them he is going to lose his team (although he will make a ton of money on the sale).

    I believe it is the owner of the Orlando Magic who has to worry now. If the stories I have heard are true he is a big supporter of traditional marriage and donates money to opposing gay marriage. Will the "thought police" go after him next? Will he also have to forfeit his team or will nobody care as homosexuals don't care/participate about basketball with the same passion of African Americans.
     
  16. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Well, Jason Collins might disagree with you there Snook.

    I am going to return to the topic and my initial and continuous point -- this is not government action, it is private action. This guy did something that was going to seriously impact the other owners of the NBA. They had and have every right to act as they are doing.

    Snook, you're an accountant. I'm not sure if you are a solo or part of a firm, but let's pretend you are one of 10 partners in your accounting firm. Let's further say that even though you and your partners are a mix of Jews and Christians, all of your employees are Christian and the vast majority of your clients are Christian (and let's make sure that none of your clients are government entities so we don't worry about that).

    One of your Jewish partners is at home and, in the confines of his home, but in front of some non family members, talks about how Christians are just idiots and how can they possibly believe that some guy was the actual son of God? He goes on to say that while he certainly employs Christians and associates with them professionally, it would be much better if the non family members would be so kind as to not bring so many of them to the parties he has.

    One of the non-family members talks about this to someone else and it gets out. As a result, the employees of your accounting firm decide that they are going to really consider quitting en masse or, at the least, refusing to work until the matter is satisfactorily addressed. Plus, the clients of the firm also find out and start moving their business elsewhere.

    Your partnership agreement allows you to get rid of a partner who acts to the material detriment of the firm. Are you saying that you and your partners would take any more time to decide to get rid of the partner than the NBA took to level the boom on Sterling?

    Really?
     
  17. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    I can, however, see Snook's point to a degree.

    Let's take an example that's similar and yet dissimilar at the same time, Paula Deen.

    Given her age, and hearing her accent, I wasn't exactly falling off the chair shocked when she admitted having used the N-word in the past. Should we really be surprised? And she did emphasize that it was in the past and that she doesn't use it any more. She was just being well ... honest ... as far as I'm concerned.

    And, imho, the backlash against her was far out of proportion to what was actually merited. I mean, she was admitting that she had in the distant past.

    Sterling is a different story though. Still having that kind of attitude when he's by now had every opportunity to learn better. "I don't mind if they play on my basketball team (stay out in their shacks in the cotton fields) as long as they don't soil my mansion (my plantation household) along the way."
     
  18. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    @DMC

    While I agree with every point you made and the NBA was clearly within their rights to do as they did (assuming this is true) it still boils down to someone is being punished for their thoughts and beliefs. Race makes it a trickier issue as the US has had a tough time reconciling race for many years. Homosexuality will be another tricky one. I don't like slippery slopes.

    Your scenario is very similar to the one like the NBA. However, to change it, what if it wasn't a partner, but was an employee. What if the employee said in private conversation "I don't like fat chicks". Clearly that would also be offensive, should the employee lose his job? Here in the US employees are employees at will and can be fired for any reason at any time. Do we need to give employers another reason to do so?
     
  19. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    If the company's best client was a "fat chick" and refused to do business with the company because of that comment, sure, that employee would get fired. I don't see why not.
     
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    I feel that there is just too much of a "mob mentality" with this. The amount of glee and happiness with the ban and the eventual forced sale of the team disturbs me. It makes me question if "unpopular" positions will become something that is just not allowed.
     
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