Couple of quickies (that came out wrong...)

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No, you just have to wait a really long time. So long in fact that I can't see it ever actually happening unless you are specifically waiting for it.

 

Though this probably deserves a thread of it's own, I think that Gorion simply just told you what he thought you could comprehend at the time being. Gorion never, I think, had sex with the PC's mother, he just said it because it was, - easier?

 

I would expect that your character has to be in romance with Aerie. That reminds me, after I did the circus quest and everything was fine, I was in the tent and I played a few games. I thought it was pretty cool since I've never been able to before. Then I had this option of buying a bear for Aerie, so I thought 'why not? Maybe she'll cheer up' (btw my character was female). And I think that buying her the bear initiates the romance (although she there wasn't any interaction between Aerie and my character) since she started complaining when I was romancing...
Can you guess?
ANOMEN!
So that was a bit of a shock when Aerie suddenly popped up whinging and complaining saying stuff like 'what about me?'

 

Actually the Letter in the form of BG1 was meant to be a "If I don't talk to you when your old enough" tone and format. So just what the character can handle doesn't really fit the storyline well. At least as far as BG1 is concerned.

I don't know why but I always felt like that Solar was trying to manipulate me into possibly becoming the Heir of Bhaal and take up being the lord of murder in some of the conversations. Certain things they said didn't seem to even quite fit in with the rest of the storyline of BG2 let alone certain things about BG1.

 

For me, Solar always interrupts at the worst possible time.
Very annoying. I always forget what I was going to do.

 

I thought it was funny how Gorion and your mother were 'occasionally' lovers, but then she took the side of Bhall ... what, was he better or something! hehe

 

Umm.. just to let ya know. I was wondering the exact same time the two times I replayed that part. Lol... what a coincidence.


I'm not sure what happens with Aerie's romance because I ended SoA before I finished it, *sad face*

 

Meh, knock her up and be done with her whinging! Oh! I always wondered, after she squeezes out the kid, can you disown them and leave them, cause that would be FUNNY!!! HAHAHAHAHA!

I'm evil aren't I?

 

Yes. You are. Did it, anyway. Liked Ano's dialogue about the bast...

Don't even go there, Anomen!

Heh.

 

On contrary, it does. It actually proves me right! Gorion "wanted" to tell the PC about all these things, who he was and where he came from, but he wanted to wait till PC was ready to hear what he had to tell. So, the letter is indeed a "If I don't talk to you when your old(ready) enough", and not the way Gorion had intended PC to hear these things, though the only means through which he could tell them, which he knew it would be, should he meet his end sooner than anticipated.

 

I still can not believe Gorion and mother were lovers...Oh my PC's innocence is truly ripped now!

 

Actually no it does not. Not in the way that you spoke of it and I will explain why.

Yes When you were older and explaining everything is the tone of the letter. But you were saying what was told in BG1 was because The PC was not yet ready to handle the truth of what is said in ToB. The problem is that the whole premise of the letter was written to inform The PC of the truth and what has really happened. By the point you reach in BG1 you are already more than ready to accept your heritage and what that means or takes to fight against. Including killing your mother to save your life. Afterall you've already heard the story of what has happened to Seravok's mother at least in part at the hands of her step father as well as had ample opportunity to either like and remember or hate and discard Gorion.

So the Idea that the PC wasn't ready to hear the truth and Gorion was holding it back until it comes up in ToB does not actually fit the storyline. The Letter found in Gorion's room if you go that high in the tower without getting arrested already fills that position.

We've also got the fact that much of what the Solar shows you is centered around the death of people in an all too "this is your heritage, embrace it" kind of way.

In BG1 your mother was killed as part of trying to save you with Gorion. In ToB she's killed by Gorion but he can only save one of you supposedly. Yet Sarevok would have had to have been saved by his mother for it all to fit back into BG1.

It starts to leave gaps and problems that are not fit by "When your ready to hear them" when you play out the whole trilogy(which i tend to do when not playing a monk or barbarian).

Such things as in BG1 Sarevok learns from his real mother and you were all saved as infants(one conversation if I recall places the PC's mother as still pregnant with the PC when she came to him and he helped her.) Though if I recall in ToB he claims to have been a little bit older and had to save himself entirely and then his foster father took him in. Key difference is that it's all without his mother. Yet in BG1 he has no reason to lie to you. He was even taking steps to Chronicle his rise to power. His diary that you find in one of your trips into the Iron Throne Tower is testament to that and even directly says so. But it changes in ToB and even places it that Sarevok knew the truth.

This is just part of why I don't trust that damned Solar when you talk to it. Even by what seemed to me the clearest good answers when talking to it the conversations were often very tinged with evil and death and the story doesn't fully add up for what you've already gone through if you are playing from BG1 through ToB.

(by the way Silverstar. By the storyline of BG1 the PC's mother was raped by Bhaal, and without Bhaal's part in things your PC could have really ended up as Gorions real child.)

[ December 11, 2005, 18:03: Message edited by: starwalker ]

 

Can someone please refresh my memory and quote what the letter say in its fullest form?

 

I've always thought the contradictions between BG1 and TOB are either 1) because Gorion didn't want the PC to know the whole truth at all, ever; or 2) because the TOB designers hadn't really done their homework. Looking at Sarevok's side of things number two seems likely.

The idea of the Solar being tricky or dishonest doesn't sit well with me, because she openly despises you if you embrace your evil heritage.

 

For the sake of continuity, I go for the 'Gorion didn't want you to know' - hypothesis.

I thought that Sarevok was adopted by the Anchevs, grew to like his stepmother, might have assumed that his stepmother is his biological mother, learned of his divine heritage and so on.

At some point Sarevoks stepfather killed his wife, which really made Sarevok upset. Voila a wonderfully mixed soup, ready to serve!

The Solar's not being tricky, but Gorion was. He was a Harper after all...Maybe he thought that if you'd know about your mother having been a evil cleric of Bhaal it wouldn't make you a nicer person. Maybe he was only trying to give you at least an illusion of a happy childhood and loving parents. That way, maybe much older, you might be wiser to accept that this illusion wasn't exactly true. It's like telling your kids about Santa...

 

ok. It took me a few days to get to the right spot because I had other things I needed to do but as Requested. The Letter from Gorion to the Pc.


Hello (PC),
If you are reading this, then it means that I have met an untimely death. I would tell you not to grieve for me, but I feel much better thinking that you would. There are things I must tell you in this letter that I might have told you before. However, if my death came to soon then I would have never been given the chance. First off, I am not your biological father, for that distinction lies with an Entity known as Bhaal. The Bhaal that I speak of is the one you know of as a divinity. In the crisis known as the Time of Troubles, when the gods walked Faerun, Bhaal was also force into a mortal shell. He was somehow forwarned of the death that awaited hm during this time. For reasons unknown to me, he sought out women of every race and forced himself upon them. Your mother was one of those women, and as you know, she died in childbirth. I had been her friend and on occassion, lover. i felt obligated to raise you as my own. I have always thought of you as my child and I hope you still think of me as your father. you are a special child. The blood of the Gods runs through your veins. Ify ou make use of our extensive library you will find that our founder, Alaundo, has many prophecies concerning the coming of the spawn of Bhaal. There are many who will want to use you for their own purposes. One, a man called Sarevok, is the worst danger. he has studied here at CandleKeep about your hister and who you are.

Gorion.


So here we go. With the letter in hand can we not only see as this as filling in on the details of what's going on that Gorion neither knew the truth about Sarevok or what Sarevok was after exactly. Unless of course you want to add in gaps and stick things from Throne of Bhaal into them. But the story does get changed through it all.

I don't have Sarevok's stuff but can get it if necessary and it goes into the rape of his own actual mother. His learning of things from her and what drove him to lust for his power which is totally different from the story in ToB.

 

The way I look at it is that nothing outside of the Pocket Plane can be trusted. Words on paper are not absolute; for example: The sky is green.

I am, however, much more inclined to believe the summoned souls of dead people who have no further reason to lie. In fact, I believe that thet are inflicted with a Geas not to do so; the same effect also explains why Sarevok's oath would be binding.

I believe Gorion painted the picture of your mother as a kind and gentle woman who was "forced" by Bhaal so that you would choose the good path. Sarevok knew of his beginnings, and the poison spread through his soul.

The one thing I will concede is that Gorion likely was the occasional lover of the PC's mother. Considering the kind of person she really was, I don't think he'd say it if it weren't true; he could have simply said he was her friend (a lie) and left it at that. Them being adversarial lovers fits rather well (especially when you wonder how he knew where to find her) and is quite possible.

That I'd like to see. I don't remember any other version aside from the one the child Sarevok gives you in the Pocket Plane.

 

ok. I'll try to get it tomorrow. Breaking into the Iron Throne again isn't that far from being in Candlekeep on your revist.

however while the dead have no reason to lie they have no honest reason to tell the truth nor can you really be sure they are the ones that are summoned. I think it's more they forgot some of these little tidbits that honestly some of them are very easy to skip over. For example if you do everything with Sarevok when you revisit candlekeep you get arrested when you move up the stairs of either level 4 or level 5 and never actually make it to the letter.

 

That's where the Geas of the Pocket Plane comes in.

In RL, sure they probably just forgot some stuff, but an attempt to reconcile the events shouldn't be abandoned solely on that basis.

You blood-thirsty killer, you. That only happens if you've actually killed the Iron Throne guys in Candlekeep. If you didn't, you have to talk to Koveras and then go all the way up to the top level for the Gatewarden to show up.

 

Actually I accept the ring and I've never made it to the letter when I do. Though quite frankly from a blood thirsty powergaming standpoint. Killing them is far more profitable than not killing them since you get nailed for killing them either way.

The only guy that tells you about the letter unless you find it on your own is on the 6th level by the way. And I've never managed to get to the letter after talking to Koveras/Sarevok. Not when I played on my 5 disc set or my DVD version. But maybe that's some peculiarity to my game or have to do something with accepting the ring instead of actually killing them. It's really hard to say since I don't know how to look at the coding stuff for it.