Building a new desktop

Remove all ads!

Yes, it's another one of those threads. The difference is that I'm on a relatively tight budget and am therefore much more interested in maximising the performance/dollar ratio than in getting the best rig out there. I think I've made up my mind about pretty much what I want in my PC, but I want to know if my rationale actually makes sense or if I've got things completely wrong.

First, I have to admit I would have preferred an AMD system, but due to motherboards and DDR3 such a system will be prohibitively expensive, so I'm sticking to Intel. I had my eye set on the Phenom II 710, which seems the equivalent of the E7400 in performance and price, except it has a much higher power consumption and requires the latest (very expensive) motherboard, unfortunately.

Anyway here's my system for now:
- Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 Wolfdale 2.8GHz
- Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L ATX Intel Motherboard
- Sapphire Radeon HD 4850 1Gb
- Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

I'm salvaging my old hard drives and my trusty NEC 3550 DVD writer from my old system. I'm also getting a basic keyboard and optical mouse, so these should cost less than nothing. Total price of the components listed above is around CAN $550.

I'm aware there's room for improvement, but I'm not sure whether it's worth it. I could get 4Gb RAM for only an extra $40. I could get a motherboard with the P45 chipset for an extra $35, with RAID support that'll be an extra $65. Then there's the CPU. The E7400 seemed like a steal at $150, but the E7500 is only $175. Or I could go crazy and get the E8400 for $200, or even the E8500 for $240... This is my problem, the steps up all seemed so small, until I realised that taking all the small steps raises the system price by almost $200. So yeah, I'm not as sure about what I want as I thought I was. And I've not even found a suitable case/PSU yet. It seems as if the days of good case/PSU combinations for $40 are gone, and I'm looking at $100 at the very least. $600 total is a good price, $900 is far less exciting.

The other problem of course is finding a shop with good prices. Newegg Canada seemed to have the best prices, until it told me shipping would cost upward of $100. I'm currently looking for alternatives with cheaper shipping.

So, here's what I'm looking for:
1) A reliable and cheap online store to buy the components from. Cheap shipping to the province of Quebec would be a big plus
2) As an alternative to the above, a good parts shop in Montreal
3) A good PSU and a solid case, at a decent price. Which brands are good in Canada/USA? I was very happy with my old PSU/case combo (ColorsIT, $40) but this company doesn't seem to exist in North America.
4) Speaking of PSU, how much power would I need for the rig I've mentioned above, if you include the DVD drive and 2 SATA hard drives?
5) Any recommendations on which of the CPUs I listed is better bang for the bucks?

Cheers folks!

 

1. Newegg Canada! Also, SP has a link to Amazon Canada...which would help SP out by purchasing through that link.
3. PC Power & Cooling is the best, but also one of the most expensive, Antec and Silverstone are both good. The world of PSUs has expanded to pretty much every brand name out there...I'm actually surprised that Intel doesn't make a PSU these days. All in all, try to get a PSU from a reputable manufacturer, and make sure it's 80 plus certified.
3.5 Cases are a dime a dozen...but for $40 you're not going to get a very good case. For a *good* case, you're looking at $75-$150+
4. There are plenty of PSU calculators on the web that will give you a better estimate than my guesstimate.
5. The Intel E8400 is *much* better, and it's only $50 more.

 

The 8400 is the sweet spot in price perfomance for intel.

The step to p45 is worth it. Your p43 has only one GPU slot. In future you might want to use an older GPU for physics calculations as more and more gamemakers see the benefits of it. Most p 45's have two slots for GPU's.

If you use a normal monitor say 20 or 22 inch 512 mb on the 4850 is enough. No need for more memory. There are two memory treads in this forum explaining a lot about memory. Read those and you might want 4 gig.

 

Amazon and Newegg Canada are the first sites I checked. Amazon Canada is rather expensive and pathetic when it comes to having a good selection. Newegg Canada seemed REALLY good at first, but you will notice I did specify cheap shipping Newegg Canada were going to charge me $100 (!) for shipping to Montreal. I was not impressed, as it may end up being easier to just buy the parts on the stop, even if it's from a more expensive shop.

I was worried about the case and PSU, and it seems I'll have to fork out. I may get away with a cheap-ish case, but I really don't want to skimp on the PSU. If I need an expensive one so be it, better to pay for quality than have it blow up and burn every single component in my system.

The PSU calculators are weird. They're giving me anything between 250W and 600W... Not very reliable

I checked the E8000 series, and from what I can see it's got a faster FSB than the E7000 series. On paper the E8400 does look significantly better than the E7400 (FSB, clock speed, cache), but does it actually make a real difference performance-wise? I don't mind paying the extra $50, but only if I'm getting real tangible benefits.

Thanks for the replies so far. Keep'em coming!

 

Oh hell, that's bad. I could buy you all the parts via the US version of Newegg and then ship them to you for less than that!

My buddy at school is running a very similar setup to mine, but he's running a C2D E7200. I don't like using his machine because it's so much slower. Photoshop takes longer to open, Illustrator took *forever* to save a 300MB file, Multisim lags when running even a basic circuit simulation... My E8400 is *much* faster.

 

The 8400, no debate.

To return to the motherboard specs. I suggested a board whit two pci-e x16 slots. I have a gigabyte p35 whit one slot. the p45 are almost identical to p 35. (A bios update of the p35 puts it even on par whit the p45). I am sorry I did not go for two slots for GPU's. Two budget cards outperform high end card in crossfire setup costing less. Or Nvidia sli if you want to.

So if money is an issue, pay less for the GPU but get that 8400. Ati is releasing a new budget card that sits just under the 4850 for around 100 $. It might take a few weeks to hit the stores.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-4750-rv740-review-preview-test/

Nvidia will probably do the same.

 

Kit, Newegg are dirty. If you do the currency conversions the USA website is actually significantly more expensive than the Canadian one. Otherwise I would have most definitely taken your offer

I've been keeping an eye on these new cards actually. It's price is actually very little under the 4850 but it's performance is significantly lower, so I'm not sure if it may not be more worth it to take the 4850. I may wait and see what Nvidia plan to do. I've also noticed special deals for the 4850, as if they're trying to get rid of stocks before the new cards arrive, which would make it pretty ideal if I can get it for even cheaper.

I've checked some motherboards and very few of them actually have 2 PCIe 16x slots (and the ones that do are waaay too expensive - we're talking more than $300). The usual setup I see is 16x and 8x, and these motherboards are still called "Crossfire and SLI ready". Am I missing something here?

 

No. 2x8 lanes is enough for two medium.budget cards. A 4870X2 in a 16 slot only has 16 lanes in the one slot so....

 

Ziad, have you tried Pricegrabber Canada?
The US version is one of many tools I use to sniff out the best deals.

 

I had a look at Pricehrabber but the search engine's a bit odd, and unfortunately all the hidden expenses that I'm worried about (shipping, handling, GST, all of that). Though I found through it a pretty nice site (Canada Computers) with reasonable price and selection, and since they have warehouses all over Canada shipping is cheap!

I think I've decided on what I'm getting It's more expensive than I expected, but I think this PC will last me a long time.

Case and power: Antec Sonata III Mid Tower w/ Earthwatts 500W PSU 80+
I've read some excellent reviews about both the case and the power supply. The fans are quiet, the PSU is reliable, the case is solid. Seems ideal.

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400, 3 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB, 6MB L2 Cache, 45nm
Well, since you both insisted this was the only way to go, I've decided to pay extra and get the boost in speed and FSB. I've also been thinking I could overclock the FSB to 1600MHz to get a 1:1 ratio with the RAMs

Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3L, Intel P45 + ICH10
I'm going for the P45 after all. I've found 2 versions of this one (P45-DS3L and P45-UD3L) and I have no idea what the difference is, if any. Nothing shows when I compare the specs. So I just went for the cheaper one
I haven't been able to find a decently-priced motherboard with two 16x PCIe slots, so I don't think I'm going to bother with high end Crossfire or SLI.

Sapphire HD 4850 1024MB
Subject to change, depending on what the HD 4750 turns out to be. If it's better than the 4830, then it will probably be my card. I may wait and see what the new ATI cards are all like before making a decision.

Mushkin HP2 6400 2x2GB DDR2 800 5-4-4-12
I had never heard of this brand, but I read some excellent reviews about both the RAM themselves and Mushkin's support. I also like the low latency, I'm hoping I can push it to 4-4-4 by playing with the voltage a bit.

Acer X223WbD Widescreen 22" LCD Black 1680 x 1050, 5ms, 300cd/m2 2500:1
I wasn't planning on getting such a big screen (and I wasn't too hot on wide either), but a non-wide 19'' costs exactly the same thing so... might as well.

All of this can be mine for a total of $1170 CAN, including shipping, tax, everything. I'm going to wait a bit and see what happens on the graphics end, but other than that this is it, unless there's a massive objection against one of the components


Just saw Chev's comments on Blue's thread.
I used an ATI card (the X700) with NWN1 and never had any problem. The game ran fine all the way.
I had thought about the 4870 for a while, but I'm not sure the increase in price ($100) is worth the small performance boost I've seen in all tests done with the card.
That said, the 4750 is supposed to have DDR5, which is another reason I'm curious about what the card will be capable of, and why I'm putting off the purchase until I'm sure I'm getting a good card.

 

Mushkin has been around since the mid-90s. They're an ok brand. I think they make their own chips...which means they sell enough product to own/operate their own fab. Some RAM companies buy chips from Micron and/or Samsung…which allows those companies to sell for less.

Once you go widescreen, you'll never go back to square. I love my 22" widescreen. Also, there is a widescreen mod that works with most Infinity Engine games like BG2. Running BG2 at my monitor's native resolution of 1680x1050 looks amazing!

 

As for RAM manufacturers, iirc OCZ for instance buys Samsung chips. They're an ok brand as well. They also have a promising array of SSD on offer, also using Samsung chips (I still haven't dropped the idea of an SSD raid).

Speaking of screens, I consider getting myself a 22" 16:9 wide screen in addition to my 19" 4:3 ... I never did that and the friends I have have identical dual screens. My ATI 4870 would certainly be up to the task. Still, resolutions would be different. I wonder if I might encounter problems? Anyone has experience with this?

 

Heh, we'll see. I was actually more interested in trying this native resolution with PST, now that there's a widescreen mod available I always thought the art style of PST was gorgeous, it would be pretty interesting to see how the game looks in glorious high-resolution!

I've not had any experience, but I had many friends who worked in graphic design and architecture who would use one very large screen for their image and one much smaller screen for the tool bars, notes, or whatever. I don't think having different resolutions is a problem, one such friend was even using an LCD (19'' I think) as his main screen and a 13 or 14'' CRT as his secondary screen and the setup worked well. I think the graphic card drivers should be able to handle displaying your Windows desktop. Not sure what happens once you start a game though - I think the 2nd monitor will not get any input.

 

A price drop for the 4870 of 50 us dollar.

http://www.dailytech.com/Radeon+487...Radeon+4850+Will+Drop+to+129/article14433.htm

 

Is it full screen, Kit? Actually, it must be if it's running the native res. Where did you find it?

 

Thanks, Tal. The last time I tried that one, it was only playable in a window, and not true widescreen, but they have changed some things.

 

It's been working great for me. Certain screens that cannot be resized (the load/options/etc... screens) aren't full screen...they have a black border that takes up the rest of the screen that they can't fill...but running around on the maps is full screen.

The best way to use the mod is to set up all your options in the Config program, and then run the mod which sets the resolution. Messing around with the graphics section in the Config program afterwards might cause some issues...

 

Unfortunately this hasn't affected Canada yet. If the price drop takes effect here as well the 4870 will definitely become a very viable option.