Bottomless Bag...

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The problem is that you spend most of the game without high level spells like Holy Word. Everybody acknowledged there were some good offensive high level spells, the discussion was on this:

People tend to focus on late-game stuff, but if you have to play through 2/3 or more of the game before you can use something, it's not something to center your strategy or build around.

So everybody knows 7th-9th level spells are powerful. What are the good offensive lower level spells?
I disagree with the statement however, as I think the clerics get some OK offensive spells at the 2nd level (silence, hold person), but the good ones come at mid-level with 4th level spells. Not that Prayer isn't good at 3rd level, but Recitation is better (although they stack).

One final thought on Chant. I tend to save it for when I'm almost out of spells to give a little extra to fighting since my cleric won't be able to heal anymore. The downside of being unable to cast won't matter if it's your last memorized spell. This is a fairly common thing when you are below 5th level as you don't have many spells to begin with.
At higher levels, once I get Recitation and Prayer I don't memorize Chant much as Prayer and Recitation replaces it. So I see Chant as kinda like Sleep, good for lower levels but you outgrow it.

 

I don't think clerics struggle on the low levels, it's just weak goblins at that point and any caster will burn through daily spells in no time at all compared to turn after turn of physical attacks.

Chant like Tenser's may prevent spell casting but if you already ran out of spells, (typical of clerics or wizards) then using them last doesn't really have any downsides.

Magic stone isn't really all that different from a lvl 1 wizards Magic Missile since high level scaling isn't in effect this early.

Command is terrible compared to Sleep; Will resisted, only 1 creature for 1 round only. Sleep is 5 per level with no save possible
I'd rather memories Bless instead.

Bane+Doom can -3 an enemy attack rolls, most melee attackers won't have very strong will saves at this point.

Summon Monster 1, not going to win any records but can be handy since when you no longer need it you need never memorize it again, it costs you nothing since it is not a spell taking up limited Sorcerer picks nor does a Wizard need to buy a scroll for it. At least you don't care if the enemy kills it, the distraction did it's job. Another attacker is okay when low level gameplay has few attack per round from a character anyway.


Hold person, nothing game breaking but it is only lvl 2 spell for a cleric so usable sooner than wizard.

Bullstrength, Aid, Chant; +2 damage and more STR, works best for throwing weapons/slings since each dmg buff is doubled by Rapid Shot (2apr over 1apr) and the ranged nature helps cover the movement penalty drawback.

Summon monster 2 is the same thing as before, just a stop gap before Animate dead, it's free so might as well make use of it now.


Some cleric spells can be arcane spells too but i'd rather the cleric used them so arcane users can focus more into Horror, Web, Luck, Mirror Image, Protection from Arrows or Blindness.
Bullstrength is lvl 2 for clerics and mages but mages get Cat's grace also so it'd be a pain to expect the wizard to be doing both.

Prayer gets you to +3 dmg which is like having an extra D6 of dmg when the average of that dice is 3.5, extra handy on ranged weapons that won't get a cheap str booster to add up the damage.

 

Anyone else feel that Sanctuary always gets overlooked when it is basically an otiluke resilient sphere except you can still move about and end it at any time by taking an offensive action rather than being stuck until the duration ends.

Reminds me of necklace of missiles, forgotten but stores 300 dice worth of dmg in a 30 foot radius in a single item.

 

so just skipping the point of which i elaborated just below in the same post, hell i've talked about it twice now to give it an even fuller explanation


look at it another way, say i reach 5th spells, my Sorcerer can pick just one of them while my cleric instantly gains the full list of 5th spells. spell for spell wouldn't even make sence in this context when wiz/sorc have exactly the same spells and differ in how they learn them.

so i'm still going to stand by it

 

That has been one thing that has baffled me since the days of the Gold Box games.
Why people think it's better to precast Prayer instead of casting it where it not only buffs your party, but debuffs the enemy. Doing it in combat doubles the power of the spell. If you lead with Prayer your other spells have a +1 penalty to saving throws meaning they have a better chance to work or do full damage.
Yet I see all kinds of advice for the Gold Box games, Dark Sun games, Infinity Engine games, Pool of Radiance:Ruins of Myth Dranor, and Temple of Elemental Evil to cast Prayer before the fight.
Heck, even the official "Getting Started" card (at least the Apple II version) for Curse of the Azure Bonds had this advice.
Note that other spells that don't have the offensive component of Prayer such as "Bless" or "Protection from Evil 10' Radius" I will happily cast before combat, it's just ones where I lose half the potency like Prayer that I hesitate to cast it on.

 

It's just some stuff I've picked up over the last 30-some years of gaming (and now I'm starting to feel old since I realize it's been over 32 years since I got Curse of the Azure Bonds for Christmas). Aside from the "Getting Started" card that came with Curse of the Azure Bonds, some of it was from talking to school mates back in grade school before there was an internet (technically there was in the form of Usenet and e-mail, possibly Gopher or FTP, just no World Wide Web). The rest was stuff I picked up on various FAQs, forums, and talk about various AD&D games.

Anyways, this is the first time I saw the advice to cast Prayer before a fight was with my very first encounter with Dungeons and Dragons:

Yes, I'm aware that Pool of Radiance came out before Azure Bonds. I got Pool AFTER getting Azure Bonds for Christmas. I wouldn't get Champions of Krynn for at least another year, and I would lament that Secret of the Silver Blades and Dark Queen of Krynn were never ported to the Apple II[gs] as I wouldn't get a new computer until 1997. I would eventually be given the "Forgotten Realms Silver Edition" and get to play them, but that wouldn't be until the 21st century, about 10 years after they were released.

 

I actually like to see lots of enemy archers as I can just plain ignore their damage with protection from arrows, works like stoneskin except it doesn't break after absorbing 150 dmg, 10 minutes for every caster level duration.

 

That's assuming they target the right character, sometimes they target one of the five NOT protected by that single-target spell.
A single archer can also be blinded which renders him ineffective, but they usually come in packs.

 

it's a level 2 spell 10m/caster level I could always strech it to more but it's not really that tough when the first person foward becomes the target.
Same thing later on with divine shell, becoming immune to even 100 archers is better than trying to keep them blinded.

sometimes i'll even chuck it on party summons to give them an extra edge on opponents.

even works in HOF as the global boost in enemy stats isn't adding any of that higher strength into damage dealt.

the best source of blindness is 10f radius level 8 spell, not really comparable to a spell lasting multiple fights.

 

If you want to get cheeky the mooncalf shield just gives you flat 10/- missile resistance so it properly stacks with protection from arrows for a double bonus

A high level Barbarian would have 17 missile and 7 pierce/bludgeoning resist.
Prot from arrows on top and you get 34 resistance to arrows
bands of the master is 39 resist without the need for spells

Wouldn't make Barbarian meta but its interesting to count it all up.

 

I believe that is a HoF-only item. In normal mode you only get Tabard's Shield, which only gives +1 vs missile weapons.