Bomb in London

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This is off-topic (although some people seem to think Iraq is to be brought into any conversation about terrorism):

Every General, competent enough to carry out such a plan had already been executed. Saddam surrounded himself with men who did not pose a threat to his power. A peaceful overthrow of Saddam's government was impossible -- the position you are implying certainly is not supported by the history of the regime. And it's moot now anyway.

By the way, I've always believed extremist on either side are moon-howling lunatics.

I've always admired the British and their approach to tragedy -- when you allow the terrorist to change how you live your life, the terrorist wins.

 

Interesting that the Queen flew so quickly to a hospital to console the wounded, then gave a defiant speech to about 250 staff, vowing that the rule of law would not be subverted. Hmmm. Just don't understand those British.

 

What?

 

Cernak, not sure I understand your point.

 

neither do I, Cernak. Please explain yourself.

 

As a resident of London I was appaled but tragically unsuprised by Thursday's terrorist outrage . The immediate response to suchtragedy must be empathy with the pain of those injured and the grief of those bereaved. Britain has given a remarkable display of solidarity following the terrorist attacks in London. Much has been said of this stoicism yet it is one thing to be admirably stoical, another to be foolishly supine. The terrorist threat will dominate Britain's immediate political agenda, and so it should. It is easy to blame the intelligence services in the aftermath of such a tragedy but these attacks were carried out by terrorists - they are the only begetters of the death and destruction we experienced in London yesterday. But this does not mean that we should not ask some hard questions. It must now be obvious that George Bush's grotesquely misnamed "war on terror" is failing. This is not to say that the terrorists are winning. But simply to point out that their ability to bring violence and destruction to our streets is as strong as ever and shows no sign of diminishing. We may capture the perpetrators of Thursday's bombings, but others will follow to take their place. Moreover, the actions of our leaders have made this more likely, not less. We must not shrug off Thursday's events and continue as before. It's time for a rethink.

I agree with the previous posts that have argued that the war in Iraq is immoral and counterproductive. In Iraq we allowed America to rip up the rule book of counter-insurgency with a military adventure that was dishonestly conceived and incompetently executed. Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed by US troops uninterested in distinguishing between combatant and noncombatant, or even counting the dead. The hostility engendered has been so extreme that the CIA has been forced to conclude that Iraq may become a worse breeding ground for international terrorism that Afghanistan was. An effective strategy can be developed, but it means turning our attention away from the terrorists and on to the conditions that allow them to recruit and operate. No sustained insurgency can exist in a vacuum. At a minimum, it requires communities where the environment is permissive enough for insurgents to blend in and organise without fear of betrayal. This does not mean that most members of those communities approve of what they are doing. It is enough that there should be a degree of alienation sufficient to create a presumption against cooperating with the authorities. We saw this in Northern Ireland. The political dimensions of this problem mean that there can be no hope of defeating terrorism until we are ready to take legitimate Arab grievances seriously. We must start by acknowledging that their long history of engagement with the west is one that has left many Arabs feeling humiliated and used. There is more to this than finding a way of bringing the occupation of Iraq to an end. We cannot seriously claim to care for the rights of Arabs living in Iraq when it is obvious that we care so little for Arabs living in Palestine. The more the west emphasises confrontation, the more it silences moderate voices in the Muslim world who want to speak up for cooperation. Success will only come from isolating the terrorists and denying them support, funds and recruits, which means focusing more on our common ground with the Muslim world than on what divides us.

 

They chose this, therefore we either play their sick game and surrender our humanity to their bloodlust, or we refuse and surrender our lives to their bloodlust. How long before the line of Perdition is crossed? Perhaps Bin Laden may have crossed it on 9/11, but will our leaders cross it too by dropping a nuclear bomb on a city in (insert current target of wrath here)?

I've heard that the word Islam translates to Peace, and that Allah means God in their language. Have these people lost site of this, or have they embraced the mor militaristic parts of their doctrine as were pointed out last page? If they seek to rid the world of every non Muslim, then it will start WWIII sooner or later...

The downside of this wrath is that it distracts from the human side of these attacks. A nation no longer mourns with those who mourn, but rather leaves the mourners to their own and seeks vengeance against the serpent that srtuck them. So you get more of the same **** that King George has been criticized for ever since 9/11...

 

Why Americans are so Impressed

 

Sorry for being stupid, but I don't think I get that, Rally.
Why the tube logo?

 

If it is a mocking cartoon it's a bit ill-timed. Whilst we still have emergency services scrapping body parts out of the London Underground, it is insensitive at best.

Still can't make head nor tail of what it's meant to be though.

 

It means that the Brittish don't sit in the corner crying for the victims for a week but carry on with their normal lives as well as they can. In my opinion the Brittish have survived this attack very well and have not let it affect their lives too much (since that is exactly what the terrorists want). Perhaps it's because of the history with the IRA and nazi bombings.

 

Like Morgoroth says, it means that we don't let these kind of privations ruin us, nor do we let them subvert the way we run our daily lives. We make the best of a bad situation. It's a quintessential British characteristic.

It's been well exhibited during other times of hardship, most notably during the Blitz.

 

quote:
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This is all so pointless. Terrorism has never worked against this country and it never will. Ask the IRA.
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Barmy, not the best example you could have chosen as it can be argued that terrorism HAS worked for the IRA at points. The very exsistence of an independent country sitting to the west of you on part of the other large island there attests to that. However it's a mistake to think that all 'terrorists' are cut from the same cloth it should be said - Al-Queda is not the IRA/ETA/Irgun etc and comparisions between those latter groups and it inevitably break down. All those groups had (leaving aside whether you love or loathe them) various agenda which by comparision were reasonably straight forward and negotation could take place. It's difficult to know as many have pointed out exactly what Al-Queda wants, or even to quantify exactly what Al-Queda is.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4668313.stm

 

Hmmm, I didn't see it as offensive in any way. I took it as admiration for the calm, collected British response to those horrors and their resolve to not let terrorism win. That people must "Carry On" with their lives.

 

Yesterday I've been at a public firework in Cologne, with some half a million people attending. I commute to work and uni every morning on public transport. I feel the chill - but what else can one do? Dig in?

As an old praelat once told me about the mess when I was an acolyte: Whatever you do, do it with dignity. Actually I find Britain's calm response much more impressive than America's hysterical white heat after 911. Colour codes everyone?

Insofar Rally: Calm, collected ... good point. There's no 'now let's bomb those ****ers whereabouts to smithereens' nonsense from Britain.

They understand that that would likely mean to bomb student houses and suburb flats in Edinburgh, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Glasgow - or London.

 

I am VERY disappointed to see that several mosques in New Zealand have been the target of 'retribution' attacks over the weekend. I thought my fellow New Zealanders were above the sort of thing but I was wrong. Despite the fact that it is the other side of the world, a bunch of mosques have been spraypainted with the words "RIP London" and had windows smashed. So pointless.

 

That is totally uncalled for, imo. Who the hell do you think you are?? THOUSANDS lost their lives in that tragedy. YOU think you can have a better response?? This just really pisses me off. I am so sick of your knife throwing and your demeaning and maligning comments towards the US, it literally MAKES ME SICK. You can't make one flipping post without some snide reference.

 

How quickly tragic events become poorly handled pawns in a never-ending game...

To be honest, I remember things being very quiet in first days after 9-11. Sort of a national deep breath.