BG1 is better than BG2 (?)

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Dear Taluntain

This topic seems to be developing nicely but I am concerned about the 'rigour' of the debate. I get the impression that there is a lot of support for BG1, which surprised me. However, this might be because people who think BG2 is better than BG1 are less inclined to read the post. Perhaps it would be possible to have next week's poll decide the issue. Something like:

Which is the best Bioware RP game:

BG1
BG2
Icewind Dale
Planescape Torment
All as good as each other

To make the poll even fairer we could ask that only people who have completed all of the games be allowed to vote (otherwise I fear a BG2 bias)

Anyway, as this is my 100 post perhaps the poll could be a celebration present for me.
(If you don't ask you don't get.)

 

Mages really suck. Almost every mage have spell shield, spell trap/deflection and protection from magical weapons. And as liches are immune to normal weapons you can't hurt them. The only way to remove spell trap is ruby ray and now I have reached the underdark and still haven't found it. But it doesn't really matter. Because in order to kill them you also have to cast breach after you have got rid of the other protections. And in that time the mage has annihilated you. Just look at those liches! Time stop, gate, meteor storm, horrid wilting. That's what I call overkill.
I could only kill them by using some really cheap tactics such as traps and running away to wait for the protections to wear off.

 

Hehe, me (fighter lvl-4/ thief in spe), Minsc, Edwin, Viconia and Imoen just wiped out some 150 gnolls and approx 30 Xvarts at gnoll fortress, and I managed to kill Dynaheir AND to keep Minsc in my party, hehe....

 

I think some of the monsters unbalance the game. Every time I get hit by a Nishruu most of my items are destroyed. Mind flayers that can kill everything with a few hits, can stun and dominate your characthers, has magic resistance and always hang out in large groups. Beholders that can blast an entire party to oblivion within a round.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH! The only way to beat these bastards is to use really cheap tactics. I wonder why the hell they are in the game. The monsters in Bg 1 was way too easy. It was tiresome to fight all those annoying kobolds and xsarts.
"Die snot hea...aargh!
" Yip yip yi...aaaargh!"
Die scu...aaaarhg!"
Almost as annoying as Birthright.
There seem to be infinite goblin hordes that all say: " Easy kill! Wham I'll get ya!
MUUUUAAAAARGH!"

 

Actually, I thought the beasties in BG2 were fairly true to the P&P monsters...With the exception of Dragons...and maybe the Beholders! They were a bit easy. When I DM'd a dragon in our campaign...It was a rough affair.

The dragon usually had henchmen the warned him of any would be attackers, plus, I had the dragon use not only his innate spell ability, but rings and potions and wands as well!

In my game...If you actually beat (not to mention kill) a dragon in my game, it was a pretty big deal...It was hard, but the reward was usually very big!

 

Well Divine - admittedly some of the BG-1 monsters like gobllins, tasloi, gnolls, Xvarts aso were a way too easy and - yes - tiresome.

But just imagine cleaning a whole orc, hobgoblin or ogre dungeon in BG-2 - with a lot of high level elite fighters, wearing plate- or chainmail and wielding +1 weapons, maybe with some clerics inmidst of them - perhaps some 20 opponents at one time . This would be challenging... would like to see what my dc-fm or dc-ft could do there... hehe

 

yah..the monsters in bg1 is very straight forward..just slash it and the end..but though in bg2 the monsters r more tactical but after u caught the point it is more easy than the bg1...........like beholder.i just have to stamd down there........

ok.the stroy line in bg1 is better.but the quest at first is very no aim.only till chp 5 and onwards have a aim.and do u ever wonder u r the child of bhaal and u r th same as others.no special powers....

and the exploring makes it boring.....

wat if both bg1 and bg2 can combine together....

 

i agree Ragusa!

little monsters are boring... but if there are enough of the buggers it can be very difficult indeed.

in a 2nd Ed PnP game... a Lvl 15 party in an encounter with Gobbos, would typically encounter 50-75 of the little critters, including leaders, marshalls and shamans. You try taking that many goblins on without getting a little stuck.

 

Well, most of 'em are dead with one single blow, but those shamans are pretty tough when there are 25 of 'em !

 

Eeeeh Ragusa, there is a Gnoll dungeon in BG1 with ELite and Veteran fighters! They only do not come with 20 but with 5 or so...

 

I finished gnoll fortress three days ago IIRC. For I wanted to keep both, Minsc and Edwin I needed to walk around quite a lot... Finally (after halberd count ) I found that I must have killed approx 150+ gnolls when I walked from the caves to the fortress again and again

I really wished Edwin had had fireball spells ... roasted gnoll, that´s the way I like them

However - even the elite gnolls didn´t use chain- - or platemails, no helmets, had non-magical weapons only, no ranged weapons at all and didn´t use any potions. And I hardly doubt they had better proficiecies than ** ... so they are not at all difficult. You meet larger groups at the top of the fortress but never nore than 10 at a time.

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited March 20, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ragusa (edited March 21, 2001).]

 

Yeah in real D&D the dragons are HARD. Not to mention fiends!(!!!!)I have so far been able to beat any mind flayer or beholder this game has thrown at me with no trouble.
It just doesn't seem honourable. But you CAN'T beat these bastards without using dastardly tactics. I mean...in "real" D&D you will encounter 1 or 2 mind flayers and they are really hard because you face an
intelligent(?) DM and not a game with bad AI. But on the other hand they won't just gang up on one paralyzed characther and devour his brain then move on to the next.
Besides you don't have to fear that EVERY time they hit you. Beholders can be defeaten
by using all matter of creative tactics like levitating, spreading out, hiding and ambushing. In BG 2 you can be a coward and fight them with nasty and unrealistic tactics or be prepared to use 5 charges from your rod of resurection each time you face them.

 

You mean on the tree of life with the parasites? Yea I killed him on my first try. Didn't even rest because I expected to reload anyway, so I might as well scout ahead.

Surprisingly, I killed him! Aerie got desiccated, Minsc with his Silver Sword was mazed, Jaheira was beaten up badly, I nearly got imprisoned or mazed and Keldorn was next.....then WHAM. Now that it was easy. It was so dangerous it could have gone either way. I didn't prep my party either with spells, everything I did was on the fly. It was very tense. I'm glad I made it though, and if you want to know how I did it.......

I just have to say two things. KELDORN and INSECT PLAGUE. I never regret choosing Keldorn over any other. He never let me down.

 

Tal, as you mention games do reamin fresh in the memory, and the real way to find out the best in peoples minds is to wait a few years. Some names, the Elitles, CM's and Ultimas of this world still stand out (and yes I do know two are still running, but the youngest of the three is now up to a decade).

Splitting BG and TotSC was never a good idea to do, the latter is simplyan add on and nothing more. It added to BG, but in no rights can be considered a separate game. As for IWD, personally I enjoyed it, and indeed have just bought HoW, but in a few years most people will recall BG (as one), and others Torment (probably less merely as it sold less), but I think those two will eventually rise to genuine classics, rather than in the sense the term is used for any half decent game released.