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Best cleric 'special powers'

Discussion in 'Icewind Dale 2' started by countduckula, Dec 18, 2008.

?

Best 'special power' that a cleric receives?

  1. Pain Touch 1/day (Touch weapon that causes a -2 penalty to Str and Dex for 10 rounds)

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  2. Ilmater's Endurance 1/day (increase Con by 6 for a number of rounds equal to level)

    5 vote(s)
    6.8%
  3. Improved Turning Feat

    6 vote(s)
    8.1%
  4. Lathander's Renewal 1/day (cures 2x cleric level in hit points)

    10 vote(s)
    13.5%
  5. Selune's Freedom 1/day (Freedom of Movement that lasts 1 round/level)

    4 vote(s)
    5.4%
  6. Moon Shield 1/day (grants a +3 bonus to spell resistance that lasts 1 round/level)

    2 vote(s)
    2.7%
  7. Helm's Shield 1/day (grants a +2 bonus to saves for a number of rounds equal to level)

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  8. Helm's Watch 1/day (grants a +2 miscellaneous bonus to AC for a number of rounds equal to level)

    4 vote(s)
    5.4%
  9. Oghma's Knowledge (+1 to all Lore skills)

    2 vote(s)
    2.7%
  10. Identify 1/Day

    7 vote(s)
    9.5%
  11. Martial Weapon: Axe and Weapon Focus: Axe feats.

    27 vote(s)
    36.5%
  12. Tempus' Strength 1/day (increase Strength by 6 for number of rounds equal to level)

    14 vote(s)
    18.9%
  13. Tyrant's Dictum (all saves vs. their will spells are at +1 DC)

    17 vote(s)
    23.0%
  14. +1 to all Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Blind-Fight feat

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  16. +1 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, and Pick Pockets

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  17. 5 Electrical Resistance

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  18. Destructive Blow 1/Day (gain a +2 bonus to hit and damage for a number of rounds equal to level).

    11 vote(s)
    14.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. countduckula Banned

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    A couple of things mentioned on this thread may have changed my mind in regards to the best 'special powers'.

    If Tyrant's Dictum bonus only applies to Domain Spells, it's pretty lackluster.

    If Tempus Strength doesn't stack with Bulls Strength (a second level cleric spell/cheap wand !), then it's also not that good. Illmater's Endurance would be preferable, since there are no endurance buffs.

    Axe feats are still pretty good: Two free feats!

    Good points made on this thread:

    - Blind fight feat (Mask) comes into play when the opponent is invisible, blurred (I have tested this), or you are blinded. It might work with Blink. I still don't think it's a very good feat though, but it's better than a buzzsaw to the head.

    - The Loremaster's Identify frees up a level 1 spell for sorcerer, translating into an extra casting of chromatic orb/magic missile/charm person.

    - More healing ability never hurts, so Lathander's Renewal might be handy.
     
  2. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] When someone misses a blinked character, the game says: ".... blinks out of existence and attack fails". Blink is a transmutation that shifts the caster in and out of existence, not visibility. So I can guess with relative certainty that Blind Fight feat won't help the same way it does against illusions like invisibility and blur.
    Then again, Blindness is a transmutation too...:skeptic:. Nah, I'm still sure of it!
     
  3. spmdw45 Gems: 8/31
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    Tyrant's Dictum isn't bad because the Banite spells are actually pretty good. +1 DC is like +2 WIS. Mass Domination from a maxed-out Dreadmaster has DC 39[1]! That should turn the tide on any tough battle (Slayer Knights). Command, Greater Command/Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Horror/Silence, Dire Charm/Rigid Thinking also benefit--yeah, +1 DC won't turn a battle by itself, but that's six spells per day of extra-hard DC, and two of them are area-effect spells.

    -Max

    [1] Starting Wis 20, +7 from leveling, +4 from potions, +5 from the ring, +4 from spoiler = 40 WIS (+15 DC). GSF (Enchantment) (+4 DC). Level 9 spell (+9 DC), Tyrant's Dictum (+1 DC). 10 DC base + 15 + 4 + 9 + 1 = 39.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
  4. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG]
    Sorry to disappoint, but demonic Slayer Knights are inherently immune to enchantments. Of the four spell schools (that you can focus in), I found that only Transmutation encounters barely any immunities*, while Enchantment, Evocation and Necromancy are all weak in certain combat situations. Still, the poor selection of Transmutation type spells makes all four schools flawed...
    Dreadmasters are awesome enchanters, just make sure you don't rely on one type of offensive spell too heavily.;)

    * Of course there's stuff like immunity to blindness and suffoctation, which makes sense.
     
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  5. spmdw45 Gems: 8/31
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    Hmmm, thank you. That seems like it would be important to know BEFORE I get (back) to the endgame. (Still in normal mode of my first playthrough in several years.)

    -Max
     
  6. spmdw45 Gems: 8/31
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    It turns out that Slayer Knights have no immunity to Mass Dominate at all, which means that Tyrant's Dictum is quite nice against them after all. Tested in normal mode: I Mass Dominated a Slayer Knight of Xvim, a Gelugon, and a Cornugon and made them fight each other plus another Slayer Knight of Xvim. Plus a bunch of lemures of course.

    -Max
     
  7. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    [​IMG] I tried it more than once in my game; the game says "Slayer Knight is immune". It's possible that my installed mods alter my game experience.
     
  8. spmdw45 Gems: 8/31
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    Or maybe only some Slayer Knights are immune? I understand that some Slayer Knights have paladin levels instead of fighter levels, and for sure only some of them drop Greatswords of the Soulless +5. The ones I Dominated were the ones that don't drop Greatswords.

    In any case, it appears that demons are not inherently immune to Mass Dominate. If some Slayer Knights are immune it's probably because they're wearing bossrings.

    -Max
     
  9. TS_Hawk Gems: 2/31
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    i chose tempus strength
     
  10. Samael Venom of God Gems: 2/31
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    Free Axes are awesomely awesome.

    And Tyrant's Dictum ... Oh hells. I love this ability ... or I DID love this ability until I read this topic. I'm torn now, this is what made me love the Bane cleric and then I really got into the 'feel' of being an evil cleric. I've not played a cleric who wasn't Bane's creature since I learned about this skill. Now I'm really not sure if I can use 'em any more. Sure there's the +2 Wis thing but that has always been bugged for me.

    I don't know what to do with future clerics now. *Sad face*
     
  11. Paracelsi

    Paracelsi ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Personally I'd also consider both bonus domain spells and party synergy and not just special abilities when choosing what type of cleric I want to use. Like it would be a terrible waste to create a Bane cleric and load him with 95% buff/summon/healing spells. Or create a Lathander cleric when you have absolutely no interest in developing his nuking potential.
     
  12. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    Banites are epic for their spell selection alone. They are perfect enchanters, allowing your healer to specialize in it, and freeing the hands of other primary casters in your team (to be nukers). Enchantments don't need damage boosting feats, and there are loads of weak-willed enemies in the game.

    Tyrant's Dictum works for their domain spells, which is probably how the designers intended it. Since you will be focusing in Enchantment, there is still synergy if you take non-domain enchantments along too.

    The quest bonus gives Banites more than an unfair advantage over other clerics, so the benefits of this cleric domain just stack higher and higher.

    Lathanderites are nice too, but specializing in fire evocations just doesn't work as well for a cleric as those enchantments do. For example: Spell Penetration is a late game option, to allow clerics to debuff spell resistant enemies. If you use this on your Lathanderite, it is more likely to harm party members too. Enchantments are mostly benign for the party.

    Battleguards of Tempus get weapon feats free, which is a great bonus, especially if you intend to use it as a battlecleric. But they lack any kind of purpose in their domain spells, and there's nothing they can really specialize in. They result in rather bland clerics. Even their preferred martial weapon type has already been chosen for them,which limits options. I actually prefer a 1-level mix-in of warrior over the Tempus bonus: It grants proficiency in all martial weapons, but at a sacrifice in leveling speed. Weapon Proficiency (1 feat) gets rid of the -4 penalty for nonproficiency, while Weapon Focus (2 feats) just adds a +1.
     
  13. SlickRCBD Gems: 24/31
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    I dislike the way this poll and thread is set up, since you don't get to pick the individual cleric powers, but they come as a packaged deal for each deity. It should be which package of special powers is best, which includes the domain spell selection (but not the "normal" spells) as well as the other powers.
     
  14. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    I have the opposite complaint, actually. They split cleric domain bonuses up arbitrarily.
    For example: Weapon Focus: Axe + Tempus' Strength would gain a few more votes than the winner WF: Axe did on its own. Which is nonsense, as they're both abilities of the same domain, so why are they competing for votes?
    Similarly, my favourite is Banite, which gets both Tyrant's Dictum and those +1 to conversation skills. The mix-in has done wonders for my Bard. Put them together, and they might have gained a few more votes...
    And, as was commented before, the Banite quest bonus is missing from the poll. If they put [+ secret bonus] or something like that there, then the truly best domain would be more apparent! :D
     
  15. SlickRCBD Gems: 24/31
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    Perhaps we are misunderstanding the term "domain spells".
    In Icewind Dale II, clerics have two spell lists that they use to memorize spells from. At each level they memorize a certain number of spells from the cleric spell list, and a single, separate "domain spell" from a list of only two spells.

    What I was saying is that we shouldn't be considering is "are the axe feats or Tempus's Strength" better, but we should be considering each cleric package in its entirety including the choice of "domain spell" and comparing the entire packages to each other.

    http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/IWD2/clerics.php
     
  16. coineineagh

    coineineagh I wish for a horde to overrun my enemies Resourceful Adored Veteran

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    True enough. Domain spells are a pain to look up, so you have to remember them from experiences, or actually study their 18 unique spell choices, and do a general evaluation of the totality. It's a very important factor, of course, but the complexity of the whole would just become astronomical.:o
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
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    If we include domain spells, my vote would have to be for clerics of Lathander. A cleric of Lathander (especially with SF evocation and the proper allocation of skills so that she can pick up Spirit of Flame) is a very effective "burner" because of her domain spells.

    To be brutally honest, I think most of the domain abilities are kind of weak and I often forget to use any of them. I've played a few clerics through to the end of the game and realized near the end I never used any of their domain powers.
     
  18. spmdw45 Gems: 8/31
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    Including domain spells, I'd have to redouble my vote for Bane, at least for HoF mode. Lathander's spell list is a lot of fun in normal mode though, so she gets second place.
     
  19. Nifft Gems: 1/31
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    This is exactly why the "passive" domain powers are generally better than the active ones: you can't forget to use them.
     
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  20. spmdw45 Gems: 8/31
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    It's not just about "forgetting," either. Using a spell-like power means you can't cast another spell for a full round, which means that a weak combat power can actually be worse than nothing: you lose the opportunity to hold a Heal or Greater Command spell in reserve.

    This is one reason why abilities like Drow Faerie Fire tend to fall out of favor as the game progresses.

    -Max
     
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