Best Cleric powers _PACKAGE_

Remove all ads!

How many game hours are spent using 6th level or greater spells and how many game hours are spent in the early areas? I would say the early game(Pre level 11) is the longest and has the toughest sections of the game. Battleguards are by far the Tank of all Clerics because of this. Definitely the best Cleric package when using "Battle-Clerics". Dreadmasters are excellent if you want your Cleric to play Elder Brain. Demarchess are great if you want to cover Rogue/Cleric in one character and still be viable in melee.

All choices are pretty good though as the base abilities of a Cleric are pretty powerful in 3rd edition type settings.

Early Lorekeeper domain powers are useless as most are not Combat based which is pretty much the biggest part of the game. But I will admit that the later domain powers are pretty good late-game.

 

Early domain powers aren't that bad...

1 eagles splender (2nd level spell) = good for sorceror getting +1-3 DCs (said enough) *if you take a sorceror!
2 charm person... decent disabler
3 dispel magic (for healing disabled casters etc)
Dispel magic is an 'oh ****' button for when you get a lot of player characters disabled. This happened a lot in the horde fortress for me

4 malison (awesome for bombardiering and single target damage)
Drop a malison then your mage friend/sorceror bombs the area with a fireball etc

5 power word silence or mass command


MEANWHILE HERE IS TEMPUS

1 bless (comparable value to eagle's splendor... much better than eagles slendor for a party without a sorceror!)
magic stone is worse than a crossbow

2 Draw Upon Holy Might... Not good until you get some levels under your belt
Chant... disables spell casting = not good.

3 Prayer and Animate Dead... These are excellent but for the fact that they are already clerics 3rd level powers. But they are awesome!!

4 Blood Rage = horrible
recitation.. same as prayer and animate dead... It doesn't give anything new just more picks of the same.

5 Champion's strength.. Good but probably any tank already has Bull's strength..(of course Champion's strength is stronger than bulls
Chaotic Commands.. Good but yet again it is nothing cleric's non-domain can do

So the overall trend is good spells, but regular non-domain cleric spells that every cleric has.


I would say

1 bless is tied with eagle if you have a sorceror and bless is way better without a sorceror
2 charm person is better than DUHM (at low levels) and chant (can't cast any more)
3 dispel magic is worse than animate dead. However none of these are new spells ie you can take animate dead AND dispel magic as normal spell picks. Still I give advantage tempus

4 Malison is better than recitation simply because you can take recitation from your regular cleric picks

5 tempus and Oghma are both good here. Toss up

 

DUHM is awesome. Period.

Eagle's Splendor is awesome for the mighty Bard as well!

Blood Rage is fine as long as you give the character a GreatAxe or another reach weapon. But it's not awesome. I would prefer Malison, but not for a Battleguard as I want my Battleguard engaging quickly in melee.

Seriously though...it doesn't matter that a domain spell is also a regular cleric spell as it is giving you an extra casting of it. I'll take an extra Animate Dead anyday over Dispel Magic.

 

DUHM needs you to have some levels before it gets good. But yeah by 6th level it is quite good.

In my party I have a dwarf Fighter/Pal 1 in the front along with a druid/F2 and the druids lightning spells actually hit because she is in the front! (and cone spells).. The cleric of Ohgma is in the 3rd position and sometimes melees but often is casting. I find it illogical to have a caster only melee unless you are solely using buff spells and combat medic (freedom of movement and so forth medic). Then I have a monk/rogue1 as a ranged attacker and speeds to casters and punches them out. The cleric of oghma melees whenever the battle doesn't need a spell to tip the balance. For example 3 driders means no casting but 10 driders means she will cast like mad.

Anyhow Tempus is also good. I was in part trying to share my 'little' secret regarding how awesome Oghma is and that's my story and I am sticking to it I've also been pleased with cleric of Talos in a different run though. Haven't played through any of the other cleric domains.

 

This could just be my bias but for early game (what I consider 1-4th spellcasting level) I think Stormlords take it again. Their +2 to hit and damage is still important, they have great defensive spells in Death Armor and Storm Shell, as well as Lightning Bolt and the awesomeness that is Static Charge.

 

Clerics should really be used in melee combat in ID2. Pre-battle buff spells, then wade in with heavy armour, spontaneous healing in the thick of things, rely heavily on that Concentration skill check. I personally design the clerics to be more and more sturdy as time passes (increase CON at level up), and see their offensive spell potential as secondary. They are mainly tanking buffers and healers to me - I can't imagine them being anything else in heavy armour.

I use Drow race for Spell Resistance, starting the female clerics off with 18STR & WIS, and their 16CON just gets better and better. I lose some potential WIS increase by focusing on CON instead, but it amounts to less than 1 bonus spell/level by the end. My Dreadmaster can compensate for the lagging spell DC with its Tyrant's Dictum and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment. Lathander has the same advantage for all its Evocation-type spells.

That's what i miss for Oghmans: there is no single Spell Focus that will augment the DC of its offensive spells. Some have no saving throw, which is useful, but spells without saving throws are often less powerful that regular savable spells.

 

Surely it is nice to raise your DCs on spells. But like you said no save is good. I think the power word spells and Malison are quite good.

I go Oghma based on getting high level spells at lower levels.

Clerics shouldn't draw agro in my opinion. A cleric in my strategy is an 'off tank'.. So you are in the 2nd row and you choose between ranged, melee, or casting. I have my tanks in the front row. Or a divine caster tank could be in the front row as long as you give them the decanter bracers (edit: from nym not horde fortress!) and other +AC items/feats. In my party a druid is front row, but she has 25 AC and even more buffed barkskin. Combat casting and high constition. I like druid somewhat in front at least so that she is close enough for call lighting or static charge.

 

I guess that it depends on what´s your "playing style". I like Battleguards (not just for the axe feat) because of their domain spells. There are certain spells that I rely on and that fills out my spell selection. Tempus has a lot of those as "domain spells" - which means that I can pick other ones.

1 Bless, Magic Stone
2 Chant, Draw Upon Holy Might
3 Animate Dead, Prayer
4 Blood Rage, Recitation
5 Champion's Strength, Chaotic Commands

Bless, Chant/DuHM, Animate Dead, Recitation, Chaotic Commands are spells that I use a lot - since they are domain spells for Tempus means I can pick other options without losing "my favorites". And axes are quite good... My second choice would be either Dreadmaster or Watcher of Helm though...

 

I believe Coin uses "many" clerics in his party. "Battle-Clerics" is the term. That makes them the default Tanks when you have mostly clerics in your party. I have tried a variation of this party and it is pretty dam good by mid-game. Excellent by late-game, when most of your front-liners can "Heal" themselves. Of course, I used the mod that adds more/alternate Cleric choices. Clerics of Corellon and Moradin are pretty dam good. Corellon gives WF LS and Precise Shot, fitting for Elves.

 

Off-tanking clerics? So who is your MAIN tank, then?

Please don't say a warrior (regardless of class), as Clerics are better tanks in just about every conceivable way. At least in IWD2.

 

There is no better or worse. All d8/d10/d12 hp/level classes can tank in this game. It all about playing style and enjoying the game while playing. It's not always about min/maxing unless you are playing some crazy BG2 mod like Tactics.

 

In normal mode warrior tanks are quite good. I don't play HoF... A dual wielding warrior can have 4 attacks at 11th level which can be quite good. For my current party a druid and a Paladin1/FighterX do the tanking. Paladin helps saves and gives me a good intimidate skill. That is actually quite good against the Baedowyn werewolf merchant as you can transform him into an awesome merchant for good trades. He buys all of your stuff for a high profit and sells: necklace of missiles and a horn that summons 4 good barbarian 'meat shields' all at once and quick casted. I take both the necklace and the horn for my bard.

I agree clerics are good tanks but they are also good casters with flamestrike and they can 'quarterback' the battle by using recital and prayer (which incidentally are Tempus picks as you say).

Thus if I have a cleric in the front row I would want to give them AC help and stoneskin/bark/whatever to help them not get their spells disrupted. Tank isn't the only role for a cleric as I said (flamestrike, recital, healing, and helping held etc of your team).

If you have warriors in your party then you can utilize the traditional rpg strategy of: tank, damage, and healing. True, cleric can do any of these things, but having a cleric as an 'off tank' can save you agro so if you are casting you won't have people keying on killing your cleric.

My Gold Dwarf Pal/Fighter12 has d10 hitpoints each level and 22 constitution and can take quite a beating. He has received 7 feats from fighter spec. At 10th level he had 160 hitpoints.

All that said I only play on medium difficulty and and I have I wouldn't say optimized characters but I do have things such as 1 in charisma of tiefling monk.

I love talking about this. Are we still on topic for the thread? I can create another if the OP doesn't want such back and forth discussion.

---------- Added 0 hours, 24 minutes and 46 seconds later... ----------

May I ask, Vanatar, who Coin is?

 

There's nothing wrong with a 20 CON dwarven barbarian (one of my few characters to survive PNP was one) doing a little tanking now and again. Sometimes I don't want to spend lots of time pre-buffing to make my cleric a tank when he could be putting Raiden to shame with the immense amount of lightening spelldeath he has.

I usually take a Stormlord, who dual wields, and a Lathanderite with a level of monk. Save the enchanting for the Bards. Come in strong with deadly spells before the enemies get to you, and by the time your clerics have to enter combat your enemies are half-defeated as it is.

 

The enemies you face are predominantly non-mages, and the casters rarely cast Dispel at you.
Unlike BG2, buff spells are implemented well, and they have many uses against non-mages (whereas BG2 encourages mage battles of buffs & buff-removers). There are plenty of long-lasting spells available from early on, meaning you get a lot of added power to your units if you walk around with Bless (1m/lvl), Magic Circle vs Evil(1m/lvl), Bull's Strength/Cat's Grace(1hr/lvl), Mind Blank (1day) and a few others cast on your team most of the game. Pause frequently, and you can make the buffs last even longer.

Shorter-lasting buffs (1 round/level or less) come into play whan you face serious opposition. Spells like Chant, Prayer and Recitation seem to have been designed for battleclerics especially, since you can get extra 'value' from them if you can cast them on the frontline, where they'll boost your allies and also debuff your enemies. It's also worth mentioning that Heal casts instantly in this game, which is completely against the rules but yet another boon for clerics.

The 3.0 rules implementation has seriously disadvantaged non-casters in this game, because they are no longer the only characters that can achieve more than 1 attack/round. The delay that Clerics get in att/round is mitigated by the extra power and utility that spells give them on the frontline. I swear by 2 battleclerics as my regular frontliners. I once used a barbarian, but it just couldn't compete without any spells.

All my casters have some ability to do physical damage. ranged and on the frontline if need be. Curiously, I found the bard to be the caster least suited to physical combat, because it already has to balance singing and spellcasting, and hasn't got enough feats to invest in combat. My bard sits at the back like a mastermind with a free hand. I replaced the barbarian with a 6STR, 20DEX, 14INT, 20CHA bard, and haven't regretted it.

2x Drow Cleric 18-18-16-5-18-5 (Lathander & Bane; one takes paladin level, one takes fighter)
Drow Deathsinger 6-20-16-14-4-20
DG Illusionist/Rogue2 12-20-18-18-5-1
Human Sorceress/Paladin1 16-18-18-3-3-18
Human Druid/Monk1 18-16-18-3-18-3

BTW, I'll be doing a minor update of my IWD_4dummies. Mainly a revision of my feat picks, with more emphasis on Blind Fight and Discipline.

 

True for this game, not so much for 3.0 rules themselves though. Casting a ton of spells per battle just to make someone like a cleric the best tank, for example, would quickly drain your character of money and components. Some spells like Stoneskin basically cost 250 gp per casting, and some high level cleric spells need a diamond to cast. Every time. Yikes.

IMO the best frontliners are Druids (or Stormlords ) by far. They get crazy elemental resistances and AC-boosting spells, so let them stand up front while you pelt your enemies with fireball after fireball, not even touching your character.

Another good way to use a pair of clerics is have them be "chanters", using their holy powers to mainly buff their allies in the thick of combat and demoralize their opponents in one spell. Clerics have a TON of these kind of abilities, and even mages can add to the fun. This is where warriors begin to shine. Grab a barbarian, use this strategy, and crank that power attack up folks. You'll thank me later.

 

I like having at least 2 characters who don't cast spells just because of the micro-management factor.

And my cleric of oghma is not far from the front and can cast recital and hit the enemy. She used magical darts until getting a returning dagger 50% chance of 1d6 fire damage. So she is just a hair behind the front line, but still has no agro. So it is her decision whether to cast Holy Power (is that right name) and go into battle or she can cast any number of spells close to the action, but no agro. Of course I could put her in the front. This is just the playstyle I have adopted. My druid/fighter 2 is in the front and that is due to the thorns and frost cone spells that are not too bad.

And another good 'always buff' is barkskin if you roll with a druid. That's a good spell!

 

Oghma, because the package overall makes for a solid cleric. I think bottomline is that some packages are ideal for clerics that plan on taking center stage, otherwise they become redundant. I see no point in bringing along a battleguard of Tempus if you already plan on giving at least two or so other characters axe proficiency (because the unique greataxes in IWD2 are just that good). I see no point in Bane if you already have more than enough casters with mind-affecting spells. Lathander is a great option if you can't afford to bring both a cleric and druid, but if you have already the latter then unless you specifically want a cleric with extra nukes I see no point bringing one.
As someone already pointed out, because non-casters become less viable as you grow more and more powerful then you have to consider scenarios where everyone is a caster.

Oghma may not be as powerful as these clerics when played to their particular strengths, but it remains powerful even when forced to play the role of complement-type character. I think this is because the package mostly contains a variety of useful abilities/spells sorcerous-type classes normally have to skip in favor of other spells, usually spells with an associated elemental damage modifier or saving throw. I find this particular kind of versatility in a cleric to be much more valuable given the type of parties I design. I only ever play other types of clerics when I'm considering making that particular cleric one of the core members of the party.

 

I would save Mask, for the domain spells. In HOF the shadow conjuration spells are awesome at 26+ caster levels, along with the standard meat shield animate dead. Thats 3 summons to compliment your undead 5, with backup to animate more if one dies. Executions eyes adds great lethality in boss battles, and well blur and mirror image - great in a hurry if things go wrong.

Mass invisibility to get the jump on people and if you like the cheese improved invisibility is great. Sleep is brilliant at lower levels, and even minor mirror image has its uses (think of a trap you cannot disarm).

Think summoner who buffs/debuffs.

 

HOF seems to horribly broken to me.