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Attributes discussion thread

Discussion in 'Dragon Age: Origins' started by Caradhras, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
    Latest gem: Sphene


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    Isn't there a spell that allows a mage to drain mana from the fallen? I believe I gave that spell to Morrigan and she did not use a potion and I only added to her magic since I picked her up as a level 7 mage. She is quite powerful with that spell enabled.

    As for mages I was referring to those that had most of their spells setup as sustained vs. activate. The extra mana is needed to sustain mutiple spells without loosing one or all of them.
     
  2. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    I don't invest in Willpower and I have no problem whatsoever when my characters get Deathblow or Feast of the Fallen. Of course for these talents to work you have to let your Warriors kill foes and your Rogues stab foes to the death. If you don't then you won't benefit from either (so playing style do matter obviously).

    So I completely disagree with your analysis that they are useless for a build that doesn't focus on Willpower (and that opinion is based on countless hours of playing on Nightmare difficulty without even using a Mage, so I don't have to deal with the "problem" of a Mage killing off enemies preventing Deathblow or Feast of the Fallen from working).

    There is one big flaw in the logic of adding points to Willpower: you have to invest 20 points to actually see a difference or really benefit from it but putting 20 points in a stat requires an investment of 6 levels (bearing in mind the Fade bonus)...

    So when actually start adding these points? If you add one point every level you won't notice the difference (it goes both ways) before the end of the game and if you add them early in the game... I'm just not convinced you will improve your character's effectiveness.

    If you have a Warrior with 15 points in Strength and another one with 35 points and can't see any difference then there is something wrong with your game. :p
     
  3. Munchkin Blender Gems: 22/31
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    There are a few factors that impact damage and they are weapon style (dual, 2handed, sword & shield, 1 handed weapon), Strength, Dexterity (for daggers and bows), enemy armor class, and the weapon.

    The first thing to consider for damage output is weapon style as it will impact weapon selections and reduce or add to the strength modifier.

    The second is the weapon used as it determines % used of strength modifier, armor penetration, and base damage.

    The third is the enemy armor class as it can reduce the actual damage done by a weapon if the weapon armor penetration score does not exceed the enemy armor class.

    The final piece is how the attribute damage bonus will be applied.

    If you are wielding a mace or maul as your main weapon the need to increase strength if you are fighting heavy armor foes will not be as significant if you are wielding swords or dagger; however, the mace/maul wielder will need a higher strength score if facing multiple enemies with low AC since these weapons damage output is lower than swords and daggers.

    This is why when I was balancing out my 2handed warrior I had two 2handed weapons to swap in and out when playing DAO. I did this because it allowed me the ability to use a more damaging weapon when facing lighter armored foes or I could swapped to the maul for the heavier armor foes. This allowed me to start allocating points to other attributes like Willpower to provide me more stamina as I was constantly running out.

    I like DAO because it allows us players to customize our PC as we want. You may want the most damaging build or a more balanced build or ….
     
  4. Scythesong Immortal Gems: 19/31
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    "Deathblow + points in willpower complement each other, not work against each other. And Deathblow/Feast of the Fallen are useless when you barely have any stamina to use any skills in the first place (see above build)."


    1 point per level is 50 stamina by level 10, higher level for NPC's. Stamina cost also scales with skill tier. Once you have enough strength for requirements and skills, you can start investing in more. How exactly did you expect me to invest in willpower? I'm not arguing here for the sake of arguing. I did not enjoy the last 3 pages of sorting through theorycrafting.

    Ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2010
  5. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    [​IMG]
    You didn't quote my smiley, have you lost your sense of humour? And that was a reply to your sarcastic comment:

    "If you can somehow notice the effect of less than 20 str/dex/magic on a fight, congratulations. I'm personally not keen enough to notice the effect, despite all my testing."

    If you don't want people to respond with irony don't start with sarcasm... Or at least don't come crying when people do.

    The ridiculousness of the example I've posted is only meant to point at the ridiculousness of your claim (i.e. that a difference of 20 points doesn't make any difference whatsoever, putting things into perspective is a neat trick to make your case more convincing but taking it for granted and dismissing any other opinion is just smug).

    FYI basing an entire discussion on a single build is pointless.

    I'm fully aware that investing adds up after a few levels (which is why I said earlier that it worked both ways) I maintain that if you use Deathblow you don't need to invest in Willpower. That is NOT theorycrafting. :rolleyes:

    Seriously, you must be running out of arguments to accuse me of theorycrafting/making things up... I take issues with the arrogance in your post. Such an attitude is misguided, offensive and inconclusive (the accusation of theorycrafting is way over the line). Let me remind you that you're just a player like me or Munckin and that you're definitely NOT an authority on the game despite all your "testing"... You're not a dev, you're not working for Bioware and you didn't create the DAO system. Think twice before insulting other posters (and I mean all the posters who have posted in this thread). It seems to me that you're implying we're all morons and that you are wasting your time "debating" with us on this subject. :rolleyes:

    You make some points but there are flaws in your arguments (mainly that they are build related). Hence my point that playing style makes a difference.

    If your Sword and Shield Warrior is never going to kill anyone or never going to even get Deathblow then I can understand that you need to invest in Willpower to make the character work.

    If however you have a character with Deathblow who is going to kill enemies then Stamina is no longer an issue even without investing in Willpower.

    I can see that you're dead set on your opinion and that you won't budge no matter what (nor even recognize the effect of Deathblow -that alone stresses my ability to suspend disbelief).

    I think I've made my point here and since I don't care much for a fellow poster calling me a theorycrafter I think I'll just ignore your posts from now on since you're all knowledgeable and your word is the one and only absolute truth and people who don't agree with you are just unwashed theorycrafters that should know better than to annoy you in your infinite wisdom. [/end sarcasm] :p
     
  6. Scythesong Immortal Gems: 19/31
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    Ah so this is what's all this about.

    The fact is I can't. Plain in simple. There was sarcasm in that, yes, because for I had noticed the trend in your recent posts. "Don't come crying when people do"? The above was an appeal to reason. Apparently everything is off.

    First off, I did not dismiss anyone's opinion. If you cared to read all my posts so far, carefully, you'll know that the original argument was adding willpower vs not adding of willpower, and whether or not going "pure" was the best way to achieve optimum DPS. As the argument progressed, I put forth my 20 willpower build. He defended with his Dual-striking warrior. What you are doing is putting things out of context.

    That was between me and him. When did you enter the equation?

    I'm confused by the motivation behind this statement. Just a guess, but did you actually think I was referring to your recent posts as theorycrafting? Read some ways, it can mean that, yes. Especially if you just focus on "theorycrafting".
    I would have thought you'd have given me the benefit of the doubt. This is not the first time I've commented on anything DA related you did. Far from being the only time, even.

    First off, if you have issues with how I dealt with Rakhir you should know that he was trying just as hard to disprove my opinions as I was trying to disprove his. It is a game we "play", and this not the first time I (or even him, apparently) have played it.
    You will note that although I made the first move, it was originally just a casual comment, suddenly met with fierce resistance. Compromises were made, but it was when he implied that my builds were suboptimal that things exploded.

    Since you clearly cannot read the condescension, the sarcasm, the arrogance, the vehemence, the false self-deprecations or even the slight attempts at manipulation in his posts then you have absolutely no right to judge me in such a manner Cara, none. These are the rules we "play" by.

    So I felt harried. What did you expect? From your recent posts I noticed you were simply stating the obvious, waiting for a reaction of some sort. At least you made your opinions plain. Fine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  7. Caradhras

    Caradhras I may be bad... but I feel gooood! Veteran

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    You quoted my post when you've mentioned theorycrafting and you expect me not to consider this to be directed at what I (and others -but mostly I -being something of a narcissist) have posted in this thread?

    Quoting my post is putting your following comment in context.

    That is uncalled for. If you want to engage in a private discussion you should take advantage of private messages.

    Really? I can assure you that all I wanted by posting this thread was to promote a sensible discussion and certainly not engage in a sterile debate ending up with accusations being thrown around.

    I always thought you were a sensible and level-headed poster but quite frankly I really don't know what to make of your last posts in this thread. I would have never thought you would get carried away like that.

    Take it easy, it's not the Alleys, it's just a game (and I'm also typing this for my own good -I did get carried away in my last post as I felt slighted by your remark on theorycrafting).

    I think we should either give this thread a fresh start or let it rest.

    We agree on that point. So let's try and be civil.

    I've sent you a PM.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  8. Rahkir

    Rahkir Cogito, ergo doleo

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    I am sorry that you feel this way; I simply thought we were having an engaging discussion about our builds. I was not attempting to be condescending, arrogant or to be vehement. (Nor was I trying to deprecate myself; though I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.) There was no attempt to manipulate anyone. I apologize if I made you feel, at any time, that I was harassing or belittling you.

    Truly, I may have gotten a bit excited during our conversation, but never was it with vehemence; simply the excitement of debate! I will refrain from any debate with you in the future, Scythesong; my goal was never to make anyone uncomfortable. (I debated with Cara earlier in the thread too! I didn't have it out for you or anything). So once again, I apologize for instilling these feelings in you and making you think that I am a vehement, deprecating person.
     
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