Another Religious subject: What Happens When You Die?

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I kind of like Herf's idea about going to where you want...Does that mean I'll go to a planet inhabited only by women, where I can jello wrestle all day?!?!?!?

Maybe it is better to burn out than fade away, eh?

 

Bel - be careful what you wish for. The women on your planet could be the East German woman's wrestling team!!!!!!

Seriously, if anyone's read C.S. Lewis's Narnia books, the "Final Battle" has a great view of this.

There are dwarves in paradise, all sitting in a little circle and convinced that they are in a locked cabin. They are eating a gormet meal, but think that it is just scraps.

Meanwhile the main characters are running, exploring and enjoying the presence of the Lion, Aslan. My kind of after-life. In the presence of those I love; brought there even though I don't deserve it (but the Lion paid my way); and filled with adventure.

 

To say that there is no afterlife is to remove the difference between man and animal. Man has a soul, animal does not. Why? Could the soul be produced by evolution? I don't think so.

If you don't think man has a soul, take a look at the animals. How many gods do you see them worshipping? Why haven't monkeys ever built any temples? Man has always reached out to something greater than himself. If nothing greater than man exists, (i.e., we are the current pinnacle of evolution) where in the world would he get the idea of a being greater than himself? He shouldn't be able to conceptualize it.

 

Good point Capstone... a soul cannot be evoluted, some great Craftmanship was needed to create this all.

 

being the pinnacle of evolution has nothing to do with haveing a soul or with animals worshipping gods, its all a matter of intelligence, humans are obviously intelligent enough to imagine a greater power, but are too stupid to describe it since it has obviously not been seen. where does this greater power dwell? is it on some other plane? is there even such a thing as another plain? or another dimension? being the rational man that i am (and im not implying that any of you are irrational) i have to believe what i see and what had been proven, of course one can bring up the point of just because you havn't seen it doesnt mean it doesnt exist is juts another if, and is not in any way logical or proven or in any way in real opposition to what i said since im not saying that only things i see exist, im just explaining why i believe what i do.

 

No, animals don't build houses, they build nests for the most part...

Egg, I might also point out that just because you've seen it doesn't mean it exists (mirage anyone?). Also, just because it's been proven doesn't mean it's true. Many things have been scientifically "proven" impossible that were later accomplished -- land speeds over 35 mph, the flight of the bumblebee, etc.

 

The Bible, religion, God...... wait till Shura gets back and reads this, heh heh heh....
On my part, i don't claim to know what happens after death and i cannot stand people who say they KNOW what is gonna happen because they just KNOW. nobody knows, you can guess all you want but you don't KNOW. me, i don't give a rat's ass. i'm living now, i keep myself happy now. what happens after that is not controllable so why give a damn. but a debate is cool though, not slamming these views, just giving my side of the story. keep em coming in....

 

Well I know what's gonna happen after this life and maybe you can't stand that there are people who know what you don't know (and this is something everybody wants to know, I don't believe you when you say it doesn't interest you.)

At least I can tell you how great it is to live without being affraid of dieing.

A quote of one of my favorit bands, Dream Theater, that described my feelings about this subject very good:

I used to be frightened of dying
I used to think death was the end
But that was before
I'm not scared anymore
I know that my soul will transcend

I may never find all the answers
I may never understand why
I may never prove
What I know to be true
But I know that I still have to try

If I die tomorrow
I'd be allright
Because I believe
That after we're gone
The spirit carries on

 

It seems to be in human nature to reach for the unknown, and to hypothesize about things we don't know. We all have hopes and dreams.
To think that after spending seventy or so years building and defining our existance, it all ends in a hole in the ground is too much to take for some people. Every creature has some feelings of self preservation, we humans just take it to the next level. I sure would like to have some sort of existance after my physical body is dead, who wouldn't.

The human mind can do some wonderous things. I have heard people's testimonies about their relationship with God and I've read about people having experiences with the spirit world. I don't refute these claims, I've just never had them myself. Of course one probably should pursue God if you hope to find Him. If you open your mind to an idea you could probably convince yourself of almost anything.

 

I don't want to interrupt or anything, but I just wanted to point out that there are exacly 666 topics on this board right now. It's almost related to the topic .

[This message has been edited by Vicsun (edited June 19, 2001).]

 

Headbanger: Two thumbs up! One because I generally agree with what you say and the other because I love that song and the band .

Now, on the original matter I'd just want to add that people that have been technically dead for some time report several things about seeing their body from above or going through a dark tunnel and all. Most of these stuff can be scientifically explained but what if we are just avoiding to see them as proof of an afterlife? OK, this starts to look waaaaay too much like the 'X-files' so I'll just lay off for a while. And, just for the record, since we're all going to die one day we might as well die happy. So stop thinking about this. It's too morbid for a summertime conversation.

P.S. Has anyone watched 'The meaning of live'? Great black comedy... You should take a look at it if you want to see death from a totally different angle .

 

If there is no afterlife and no God, then we humans have some amazing mental powers. Supernatural events have been too well documented to be entirely discounted.

 

Wow... Im suprised that this topic has gone on for so long and no one has actually put the 'crap' on it. Its good to see people thinking past material desires in life and looking beyond.
Im a Christian myself and strongly believe in God, but I respect all who believe in a higher being regardless of religion. From the Ancient Egyptians and 'their' messages in the Pyramids to present day religions. To believe in an afterlife but mostly to worship a higher being is what makes us children of God.
Now to put my two cents in on this topic: I believe that animals do not have a soul but are all part of the 'essence of God'. When they 'die' they become a part of the greater energy of God, although I believe man's soul trancends to God for Eternity (or 'falls from grace'). I believe heaven and hell are 'positive and negative' planes of existance. Fire and brimstone are characteristics that man have conceptualised to try and comprehend this existance. So do not criticise this line of thought, it is much more 'advanced' than this. What organised religions have done over the years does not represent how all 'organised' religions and their people are. They were performed by corrupt individuals who took advantage of the people...and yes, organised religion is needed. Who are we as individuals to judge what is right or wrong? It may be hard to admit because of the selfish nature of human nature but we do not know all. Religion is the accumulated wisdom and enlightenment of generations and generations of people which stems back to the true source.
About evolutionary theories and science that we have discovered, this should further enhace ones belief if a higher being, how could all this beautifal creation be by accident? It is surely the creation of God.
On a finishing note, Christians (and people of other faiths) are being persecuted even more in todays society than in the days of old (i.e. Romans killing Christains), we are now faced with ridicule and death of faith through today's society. Keep it real, keep your faith, in whatever you may believe, just as long as you keep your mind open and belive there may be hope.


Seek and you shall find.

 

Just a little food for thought (or spirit)
A non religious man asked a monk, "what if there is no God? You will be sacrificing so many of the joys in life for nothing"
The monk replied: "Well, if I'm wrong I'll just die peacefully thinking that I'm going to a better place, but what if I'm right? What will happen to you?"

(a crude translation off the top of my head)
Think about what this could mean...

 

The non-religious man was so wrong. He thought what many people think, Christians have to miss lot's of pleasures in this life.

That's not true, I realy enjoy life, play RPG's, sport at least 4 evenings a week go to pubs and disco's 3 evenings a week, even smoke a joint a few times a year.... so what pleasures do I miss? As a christian you got even more reason to enjoy life and make fun, if you just don't forget God and thank God for what you get.

 

One question though. Who decides what is meant by respect to God? Who decides what he actually wants of us? I respect God, if there is one. I respect that he knows what he is doing, and he knows what I am doing. I believe he knows me so well that I do not have to openly show it to him that I love and believe in him. Back to what he wants of us. How do we know? The Bible? Humans wrote the Bible. Supposedly influenced by God, but who knows? Only God does. Do you claim to KNOW God? Do you claim that you KNOW what God wants? I don't. I leave everything to God because I believe he is all powerful and wise. HE knows everything. Not us.

No one has an answer I see....

[This message has been edited by Arkados Blackmire (edited June 22, 2001).]

 

I hope I get to see my dog when I die. I love my dog! Do animals go to heaven? I heard somewhere that animals can't go to heaven because they don't have souls. I need my dog to be truly happy in heaven!

 

Just taking a look at this for a moment- when you die, what happens to you? Why should death trigger some kind of event like ascending to heaven? What is death but the ceasing of brain function? When the brain is dead, like a fallen tree, your body remains. What more do you need? Why is that not exceptable? Is that sad, bad, wrong? Should not the life lived encapsulate all, without need for existence beyond Time? What makes humans so special as to receive a gift of life beyond and not the cat, or the bird? Is it for we are superior? We are Gods in our own minds and thus deserve something else, not to end like the fallen tree or the hunted lion? We are far more pitiful and undeserving, and yet we think our method our mode of sentience gives us some form of unique right. It stinks of blind hubris.

Sure it's a nice thought to think that we transcend this mortal pith, but I have learned to trust only what I can see, for it is truly all that exists. Mine eyes are my tools, what they see, deception or not, is what is out there for me. I search for answers, constantly, this is true, but I take none on faith. I believe nothing for the sole reason that someone else told me it was true. What I'm saying is I may not have any answers, but at least I'm looking. If God is what you say he is, he will have nothing against me running a background check and talking to his previous employers. Why must truth be hidden, or rather, a conclusion be reached? "A conclusion is simply when someone stops thinking." Constantly explore, constantly interpret. These are the facets of your existence, do not waste them by conceding to know what you know.

Finally, why do we classify God as a "HE"? Does he have testicles? Is he XY? If so, WHY? I mean, sure for Jesus to have testicles is one thing, he could have spawned a score of mortal progeny, but God?? If so, I'd like to know his gene sequence... or at least Jesus's... imagine if we could clone a baby Jesus... would he still have his magical healing powers?

Amon-Ra

[This message has been edited by Amon-Ra (edited June 25, 2001).]

 

Yes we are superior to other things on earth. I don't say we always uses it the right way but if you don't see that we are different from all other creatures on earth there is something wrong.

About that last question, he wouldn't have that powers no for you can clone a body but not a soul/mind ans Jesus was God in a human body.