America vs. the world

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"Christian Fundamentalists are not your friend".

How is it that no one realises what an offensive generalisation that is? If someone posted, "Jews are not your friends" or "Blacks are not your friends" they would be flamed immediately, if not expelled from the boards.

Presumably you are speaking of the US phenomenon, the "Religious Right", the subculture that combines fundamentalist Christianity with right-wing political lobbying. If you want to bash this group, I won't argue, although I recommend backing up your statement with specific reasons and examples if you don't want to look like a bigot. But to treat ALL fundamentalist Christians as enemies is deeply unfair.

- The Quaker doctors and nurses who, despite their committed pacifist beliefs, put their own lives at risk on the front lines in both world wars to heal the wounded were fundamentalist Christians.

- The Salvationists, whose doctine requires them to devote their lives to caring for the poor, dying and addicted (you would know Salvationists as 'The Salvation Army') are fundamentalist Christians.

- The Mennonites all over the world who devote significant portions of their time and money on pro-peace and anti-poverty initiatives are fundamentalist Christians.

I do not at present belong to any of these groups, but I would be very proud to call a member of these groups, and others like them, my friend. If you would not- well, all I can say is that reflects far more on you than on them.

 

Zaragoth, haha, well.... hmm, the only stereotype for the Swedish that I know of seems to be TALL. Uh that's about all I can come up with. But I bet you are a heck of a drunk!

Kit, $10,000 in one sitting?! What were you talking about?!

Sprite, take it easy there, yes you guessed correctly - I was reffering to the "religious right" Jesse Helms and company - NO to abortion! NO to free speech! NO Blacks, Gays and Jews! NO to scientific advance! NOW pass the donation tray!

(I always thought it was interesting that he always grouped a skin-color, a sexual orientation and a religion into the same group... very strange.)

Also I have no idea why you'd be "pround" to be part of a religious movement that you aren't... so why don't you join up?

The Salvation army just this week tried to pressure Bush into adminsitering "faith-based" exemption from fair hiring, so they wouldn't have to soil their holy business with those pesky gays and lesbians. Oh yeah they're great.

 

ArtEchoke: You may want to read more carefully. Sprite said she would be proud to have a member of one those groups as her friend.

And in regards to your comment about the Salvation Army and Bush. Why should a group have to hire someone who is not a member of that group just to fill a government issued quota? This is not a racist or prejudiced comment. We're talking about a religious organization. I would liken this to a Synagogue hiring a Catholic priest. Or, should a home for battered women be forced to hire a man to handle newly arrived cases?

Something to think about next time you jump on the political correctness band wagon.

 

Again I'm glad I don't live in USA.
Our church sure isn't like that.
I once saw an american church on television.
Seemed more like a show than a church.
No...it WAS a show.
" Jesus has left the building"
And a christian TV-show...good lord!
" I can feel there is a man with a broken ankle out there! It's healing now!"
And yadda yadda yadda.
It makes me so MAD to see religion reduced to nothing more than money-making.
THAT is truly blasphemic.

 

Any other americans getting the picture that all other countries watch WAY to much TV??

My church is most similar to the ones in the vatican (not architecturaly, but in the way that it is presented). So that "jesus has left the building" crap is fake and any one that watches it to replace an actual mass shout go to reconsiliation imediatly.

Kit, the people that you were talking to were probably spending there months dinner money talking to you, so i would not be surprised if most of them were lonely/ horny jackasses. so, it is yet another bad example of american life.

And also, when i said that i owned a gunand enjoyed using it, i ment that i like to hunt and also to have target practice at a shooting range, not that i have an unregistered AK-47 that i love to go on shooting rampages with. That is also the reason that -most- other americans own weapons also.

Why does every one think that we are obsesed with war and guns? we are not.

 

WELL JESUS! We're way off topic now oddly... Pass the donation tray!

I guess I can blame myself.

Why is everyone getting so personal? I haven't insulted anyone... I mis-stated something (it happens), and Sprite actually stated that she KNEW what I was reffering to.

Golyn, have you ever been to a Salvation Army outlet? It's not a church, it's a store, they hire people to hang clothes on racks, and stand behind the counter.

They sell used stuff, they don't give it away.

Anyway, oddly enough the Americans in the discussion, (Me and Jack) have been very polite. We've stated our points and I have't been trying to start a fight with anyone... I'm just stating my case, and responding to comments (and attacks) being made.

And now I've been called a bigot (by someone who said they basically understood what I was trying to say) and a crusader for the "PC" by someone who doesn't understand the first thing about the case I was discussing. (hiring a Catholic Priest for a Synagog? What are you talking about?)

So really, who are the $%@holes? You call someone names who just stands up for himself? Thats mature.

And really guys, watch TV with scepticism, read between the lines, DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE.

Yes Jack I believe your point to be true, especially because there are so many other geographical hotspots right now, where intolerance is at the level of genecide.

Divine Shadow, not all religions in the US are like that, but they sure do get alot of airtime, and they speak loudly. But I understand your skepticism.

Anyway, lets keep it clean, if you hate me because I'm from the US, then there's nothing I can do to convince you that we're not all crazy jerks, so you shouldn't bother reading the discussion. If you seriously want to discuss this, then try to be objective, say your point, don't attack me, I'm not going after anyone.

 

Actually ArtEchoke... it was not in one sitting..lol I am sooo fun to talk to that he called and talked to me for hours everynight.. made me alot of commision

 

With all due respect Art, you WERE going after the Christian fundamentalists. Which I suppose would include me. I don't believe that homosexuality is a moral lifestyle. This is not to say I'm against gays; I've actually had gay friends. We just agree to disagree, more or less. Christ himself was friends to the publicans and the sinners -- we're not out to make enemies.

About your comment on the Salvation Army -- the reason it was compared to hiring a Catholic priest for a synagogue (pardon me, but you should understand this on your own!) is because as fundamentalists they believe that homosexuals are not saved. By hiring homosexuals, they would be condoning homosexuality and in effect, supporting it -- against their religious beliefs. QED.

Incidentally, AMaster, just because God made us in His image in the beginning doesn't mean we still are that way. Read Genesis 1-3 if you actually want to understand what we believe.

 

Actually, Capstone, the majority of the bible(including genisis 1-3) is parables that never actually happened but are there to teach a lesson. So, there fore, it is how you are taught it, or how you precieve it to be if no one was there to teach it to you. Art may still not under stand what you are talking about simply because you were taught it different, eventhough he does acctually read it.(i asked the priest at my church about this years back)

and why does every one think that the salvation army is a religion??? it is nothing more than a place that takes donations, such as clothing, and distributes it to the "less fortunate".

[This message has been edited by jack-of-all-trades (edited July 16, 2001).]

 

Ok, I'm going to try to keep this brief, because I'm clearly painting myself into a corner here.

I really could, in all honesty, care-less what religion anyone adheres to, we got side-tracked. My original point was, that because of the influence of certain high-powered religious groups (The religious right, as it was pointed out by Sprite, you know... Jesse Helms and company) acting as political entities, our education in certain parts of the country can be suspect at any given time.

For example: Last year the board of education in Kentucky banned evolution from being taught in public schools. Its been fixed since then, but its an example of how the church messes with education, and perhaps one reason why people outside the US percieve us as ignorant morons.

The case with the Salvation Army was a complete tangent, nothing to do with the topic, I was merely pointing out as Capstone has, in regard to Sprite's post, that these groups do have their own agendas. However the Catholic priest in a Synagog analogy doesn't make sense, simply because, the Salvation Army stores are not places of worship. It doesn't take faith to run a cash register.

This however is completely off topic, and if you want to discuss it further, start a new thread in the "whatnots" about fundamentalism, religion, or Salvationists, and I'd be more than happy to pick up where we left off.

Well I guess I wasn't successfull in keeping it brief at all.

 

I started a new thread on the Fundamentalist subject.
http://www.sorcerers.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000837.html

Go ahead and rip on my country . . .
. . . but when you start messing with my faith, then we have to talk.

 

I HATE it when yanks say that "america is the greatest nation in the world", and then say that there are polar bears in sweden.
And just for information: Swedish people do NOT end every sentence with "ja".

 

Well, I just have to post again here. I didn't notice how much activity this thread was getting. You know, in America there are all kinds of people, like anywhere else. However, if you aren't an American, imagine for a moment that you were, and that you were, say, 17 years old. (I would say 17 is the age for which South Park type movies and the bulk of mass pop culture, also that of the exported mass culture, are directed to, or at least thereabouts.) Now, as you grew up, lets say middle class with no real financial strains, you were in the middle of the country. So, for thousands of miles in every direction is fairly consistent in terms of available products and services, language spoken, foods eaten, types of employment, and sources of entertainment. You go to school and don't get too excited by it. You go to amusement parks and eat funnel cakes and other horrible things. You or a friend may have a mullet. You think the Trans-Am is a cool car, and really want a Camaro SS. You probably have your own car already, which you work to upgrade and buy more things for. Stereos that are stupid loud, a kit to lower it, some dumb looking ground effects and a fat tailpipe to make it sound like its fast and a chip to optimize the injected four banger that struggles to support all the plastic bits. You play a sport at school. You think you are cool. You don't read a paper or have much in the way of a source of good information. Your school is pretty good, but you are too unmotivated to utilize the resources so your education is lackluster and average for an american, meaning pretty bad. You live in an instant community, one developed quickly with a few different 150-200K floorplans in a loopy, wide street and cul de sac type neighborhood, and have a couple siblings. You live there your whole life until you go away to college, and based on grades and so forth, your not going far geographically or to a radically different atmosphere. Studying abroad does not come up in your discussions with advisors. You study something like business management or communications, graduate and get a job. You speak only english, you still think the Trans-Am is cool, you can read and write just good enough. A job that might involve travel. You go to Europe and its totally different and you don't like it and think these people don't know how to live. Thus, an ignorant moron of an american is made, with enough technical education to make a good living and maintain affluence as well as the insulation from the world that it brings in America. Your not concerned whether Canada is a nation or a state or neither, it just doesn't effect you one way or the other. Mexico is where our products can be made cheaper and they like hot food, burritos and stuff. Europe is stuffy and weird. The women don't pluck their eyebrows down to nothing and wear lots of make up. The men still wear tight jeans. The cycle continues...However, as I said, there are many types of people in America. Unforunately, our exported culture neither represents the diversity or shows our better sides. I don't think its fair either to size up a country by South Park or Simpsons (which is actually making fun of american life, not accurately depicting it) anymore than you can size up the UK by Benny Hill. The thing of it is, in my opinion, the type of widespread consumerism and affluence you find in America is one of the reasons so many of us are ignorant of much of the world, history, current affairs and so forth. There just isn't a need to be aware for the sake of security or employment and it seems so far away.

Now, as for BMW owning RR, its a shame. Its also a shame that Ford owns Jaguar and Rover (recent change) as well as Volvo. I think BMW briefly owned BMC as well, but allowed the "MG" name to continue in British possession due to sustainable marketability.
I'll leave the perils and benefits of globalization to another post some other time I guess.

 

"And i must tell you that your southern states are very uneducated as to the world around them. I talked to hundreds of men.. (and no it was not all sex talk, alot were just lonely"

MMMMM.....I would think that anyone who would rather call an 900 number than go out and actually try to meet someone would be very uneducated as to the world around them.

I AM from the Southern United States(Myrtle Beach, South Carolina), and I am more than a little aware of the world around me. For one thing, I have grown up in a resort town where I see people from all over the country and the world every year (my town has a population of 27,000 but 13 MILLION people visit here each year. I do know that Canada is a huge country (Actually the 2nd largest in the world land mass wise) with a diverse population. I also know from experience that it must be cold as hell up there because I allways see the Canadians swimming in the ocean here in February (burrrrr). I've back packed through europe, and have meet some very interesting people. Every country in the world has stereotypes.....but lets not forget that the US is EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! That's right! The United States is comprised of a population that can trace it's origins back to all of the different countries of the world! We ARE the great melting pot! I think that some Europeans tend to forget that! I also think that some europeans are jelous of the fact that the United States is the only true SuperPower left in the world today. And that the United States played a HUGE part in making Europe what it is today. I shudder to think what Europe would be like if not for the efforts of the US during and AFTER the second world war. Some people might not like the US...some may think that we are arrogant, uneducated...but who in the United States really cares what other countries think? If we wanted to be European, our ansestors would have never left there in the first place!

OH....btw...KIT! what's that 900 number again? I want to give you a call.

[This message has been edited by Llandon (edited August 13, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Llandon (edited August 13, 2001).]

 

Oh, yeah, and thats like the other thing!
Yanks always talk about that they are the last superpower in the world, but, if every country that has been harassed by the USA in the past would rise against the tyrants,there would not be much left i tell you!!

[This message has been edited by Brega (edited August 13, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Brega (edited August 13, 2001).]

 

Yanks always talk about that they are the last superpower in the world, but, if every country that has been harassed by the USA in the past, there would not be much left i tell you!!

Ya wanna tell me that in english? I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. And btw...what countries have been harassed by the United States?

 

Well let me tell ya, Yankee Doodle:
Cuba
Russia
North Korea
Syria
Libya
Iraq
Yugoslavia
Vietnam
Chile
Colombia
Peru
Ecuador
China
Sudan
Bolivia
Iran

 

I will admit that I am an American. and you know what at some times I think that americans are the dumest most sovenly people in america. (expecialy if you look at TV)

I noted a coment ablut the American educational system, I agree Last year (my 10th gradeyear)I met a person who had never seen a pictur of an A-bomb Mushroom cloud.

Christen Churches on TV: If you think that is what the majority of US churces are like, IMO you need to see a smaller one the ones on TV IMO ar nolonger a true part of the religion they suposidly represent.

Another point I feel I should make is that with a little inginuity you can flame any country in the world. For example If I wanted to flame Canada (no offense to anyone there) If you where claming Canada is better than the US I would ask you why it was that over 90% of the Canadian population lives within 100 miles(US) of the US boarder.(This is a true fact) As I said this is an example that I camup with easly no affense to Kit or anyone from Canada.

(PS dont even mention our LAST president.)

 

I'm from Hungary and USA seems to us like a big brother who wants to direct you in every way. The influence of the American "culture" (TV series, Mcdonald's, etc.) is so great that you must do something against it... You must save your own cultural identity. Still, I don't think that Usa is a piece of shit. There are great things, I like some of the american literature (for example Bret Easton Ellis, and the american minimalism) But sometimes when I see the crap in the TV an Bush, I hate America.