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Alabama’s new GOP governor: If you’re not a Christian, you’re not my brother

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Ragusa, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Can't believe I am actually doing this, but what the heck . . .

    NOG - he's talking as his first official speech as governor. Sure the people don't have to be there, but he's still their governor.

    If you really cannot fathom the importance and similarity there, then I think you are just reaching because you don't disagree with this guy's message.
     
  2. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    I agree that it was inappropriate, but I disagree with the comparison to a teacher. The point is that a teacher can punish students for disagreeing, or for not listening. It's assumed that the teacher has that authority, so it's an unspoken threat. It doesn't need to be explicit. That is why it is so unacceptable for a teacher to even talk about the topic. The governor, in this case, doesn't have that direct authority, and any punishment for those who disagreed would have to be indirect, thus an explicit threat (or at least a thoroughly implied one) would be required. Since none was given, and in fact rather the reverse was stated, I don't think this compares quite to that extreme.

    I'm not saying he was completely proper to do this. I've already said he wasn't. I'm just saying it's not the same thing as a teacher teaching Christianity as The One Religion in class.
     
  3. Master of Nuhn

    Master of Nuhn Wear it like a crown Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Ooh. I wasn't aware of that. I just thought he talked to the church as a member of the church, not as a governor in office. (Is that the right way to put it? I'm not too clear at the moment...)

    If it was an official speech as a governor, than this is not the best way to start, I guess. But I can't make that out of the text in Ragusa's first post. So I didn't see a problem. If he would have been talking to a council or senate or whatever, then it would have been much clearer to me...
     
  4. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    NOG - last time . . .

    The school prayer issue isn't a CHRISTIAN prayer, it's any prayer.
     
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  5. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    ... Yes, DMC. I realize that. I was only using Christianity in my last post as an example (and the most obvious example considering history). Here, let me clarify for you:

    I'm just saying it's not the same thing as a teacher teaching Islam as The One Religion in class.
    I'm just saying it's not the same thing as a teacher teaching Buddhism as The One Religion in class.
    I'm just saying it's not the same thing as a teacher teaching Shinto as The One Religion in class.
    I'm just saying it's not the same thing as a teacher teaching Rastafari as The One Religion in class.

    Is that better?
     
  6. Iku-Turso Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


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    Got to love a zealot :rolleyes:
     
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  7. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    No argument from me that it was a dumb thing to say. Given his likely feelings about Mormons, I personally would feel entirely justified in saying "this guy will do what he HAS to for me but he won't go out of his way to help me the same way as he would for the organizations he considers his brothers." I would not be worried, though, based on the rest of his speech, about him acting in a direct, active way against those he perceives as Non-Christians.

    I'd have to see more evidence of a desire to harm others, which I found lacking in the speech.

    I think he's speaking out a reaction against the criticism and derogatory comments that people make against Christians with such casual ease. Many Christians feel, rightly or wrongly, that their religion is under attack. Since we're talking about feelings, it's not necessarily going to follow logical parameters, so don't hit me with logic too much.

    I know that there are Christians who portray non-Christians in a very poor light, and I have no time for them. Certainly Hollywood and the entertainment industry puts a lot of energy into portraying such hypocritical Christians as poorly as possible, with the underlying insinuation that ALL Christians are just as intellectually lazy, hypocritical, foolish, and pretty well evil. Well, they're not. Sorry to break the news to anyone here.

    In the face of such criticism, however, many Christians lash back inappropriately. I can't say as I blame them, though their approach does more harm than good. This may be his way of saying "I am a Christian, I'm proud of it, and if anyone has a problem with THAT, they can go take a flying leap." I don't see that as necessarily serving notice that he's going to act to harm any other group, but rather a statement that he believes what he believes and is not going to change his religious convictions just to appease critics.

    If his future policies are discriminatory, he's going to face legtitimate criticism on that score. I'd like to see the criticism levelled at what he does, not necessarily what he believes or what he professes.

    However, I want to reiterate that his comments were unwise but not necessarily threatening or a harbinger of oncoming totalitarianism.
     
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  8. dmc

    dmc Speak softly and carry a big briefcase Staff Member Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    NOG - Not really, but it's not worth arguing about it.

    LKD - not directly harming a group is very little consolation if he is directly helping another group. So he's not stomping you down, but he is lifting them up. Either way, there's a change in relative elevation . . . Just sayin'.
     
  9. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    That's a fair comment -- IF he actually enacts policies that lift up one group unfairly over another. I highly doubt he could do that, even in Alabama.

    I know that sounds harsh, but Alabama does have a bit of a reputation in the world, deserved or not.
     
  10. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    For some weird reason this episode reminds me of the lyrics of that glorious Manowar song "Metal Warriors"
    :bang: :shake: :clap:
     
  11. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Then I'm confused. What did you mean by this?
    I thought it was fairly clearly a criticism of me singling out Christianity as my example. If not, you really lost me.

    And do you complain about how Obama's helped unions? Just as an example. The reality is that all politicians help out those they consider their friends. The difference between problematic and non-problematic is how far they go to do so, not whether that group is all-inclusive. It's never all-inclusive.

    Within the context of the rest of his speech, I don't see this as a sign of trouble. A stupid move, and no reason to not watch for trouble, but if he really is as much of a Christian as he says, it's his Christian duty to do the best job he can for everyone under his authority. BTW, I do hope someone's pointed that out to him.
     
  12. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Hey, don't forget about Texas. I mean, we should not be outdone by a fellow southern, conservative, "Christian" state. Or can we?

    http://www.khou.com/news/election/-Straus-wins-re-election-as-Texas-House-Speaker---113327444.html

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7376774.html

    But was the speaker of our fair, conservative state too moderate? Or was it something more sinister for the Tea Potters?

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-3-2011/jewish-speaker-of-texas-state-house

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/12/06/texas-christians-best-jobs/
     
  13. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    Attacking a candidate for not being "A True Christian Leader"? Seriously bad form. The subtle anti-Semitism in the rest of those attacks is creepy.
     
  14. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    LKD - In the end I was glad that Joe was reelected. Texas, despite many things, is a more diverse state than Alabama. I was glad the Republicans held off the demands of some in the Tea Party.
     
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