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AI art generator

Discussion in 'Whatnots' started by Dice, Sep 6, 2022.

  1. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    This isn't a game but it is a lot of fun so I thought I'd post it in whatnots. This is the public version of a more complex AI art generator called DALL-E 2. The pictures in this one are low resolution but it is free and you can still have a lot of fun results.

    https://www.craiyon.com
     
  2. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    All of these AI art generators are completely derivative, but it's still uncanny how many good results you can get through not that much trial and error. I'm pretty sure that this is going to be subject of litigation sooner or later, because it's basically profiting off thousands of artists' collective works that it's using as a base to generate derivative works from. Obviously it's not a problem for the art that was contributed freely, but I can't see the artists who don't wish to give their art away for free being happy with this.
     
  3. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    I'm not so sure about that. You can generate images and do a reverse image search for what the AI has created. They don't duplicate anything. I've been using the full version for a month or so and have gotten some pretty interesting results. You have to be pretty specific with your prompts to get the results you want, but the results have been often very surprising. The free public version I posted above, is definitely way more limited but if you go to DALL-E 2 site, you can sign up on a waiting list for a free trial. They give you 50 prompts to start and you get an additional 15 per month after that.
     
  4. Keneth Gems: 29/31
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    That's not gonna happen. By that logic, almost all art would be considered derivative and open for litigation because we all learn by example and inspiration. Where would you draw the line? If a real artist can create a piece of art in the style of another artist without repercussions, then why shouldn't a machine? Unless you're reproducing copyrighted material and making significant profits, there's no basis for copyright infringement.

    What I can see becoming an issue at some point is art forgery, especially in the age of digital art and idiots trading NFTs.
     
  5. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    What they generate is based on the database of existing work only, there is no originality in the human sense, the work produced stems purely from combining and manipulating the existing pool of art. You can easily produce art "in the style of artist X" that will contain recognizable features and feel like a piece of art made by Royo or whoever. So it's just very good at seeming original, but the originality comes purely from incorporating dozens of thousands of pieces of art, recognizing and duplicating patterns and rearranging them in random forms so that the result is different every time. Naturally I'm simplifying here, but that is the basic premise.

    I wouldn't be so sure about that. Sure, a lot of art could be considered derivative, but no human relies solely on a database of existing work to produce new art like the AI generators do. The existing laws in this respect were made taking humans into account, not AI.

    Once the AI generated art becomes widespread, I can easily see recognizable artists arguing loss of income when anyone can generate art that appears to be made by them, but the only one profiting from it is the AI generator company pocketing the money while churning out derivative works by thousands, devaluing the work of any given artist and robbing them of the profits from being able to sell their works for a price and in the quantity that they determine themselves. Obviously, arrangements where an artist would allow this would be possible as well, but they'd need to be compensated for it or allow their works to be used freely.

    I won't speculate where you'd draw the line, I expect this will be determined in lawsuits in probably not so distant future. The music industry has relatively clear standards to what extent one song can mimic/sound like another before it infringes on its copyright and I don't see this being any different with visual art. And the boundaries in music have been clear for decades, so this is nothing new. A bunch of incidental or "incidental" copyright infringements happen there all the time and are handled via lawsuits, so I expect that the situation will be pretty similar with AI generated visual art as well. Behind every AI-generated piece of art is a long list of which sources the generator drew from to generate a new image and to what extent and how, so if anything, it'll be much easier to determine the extent of infringement.
     
  6. Keneth Gems: 29/31
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    The difference is that in the music industry there are very common elements shared by every song, so rules can be made to determine where a piece of music is "stolen". There are no such clear indicators in visual art beyond what we can determine with our own eyes. That's why such examples are judged on a case-by-case basis.

    It might be possible to create an AI that determines the degree of similarity between works though, but that's just the start of a war between AIs that impose the rules and AIs who try to work around them. Eventually, humans won't even be part of the equation anymore. :shake:

    Also, the whole "robbing" someone of potential profits argument is completely absurd to me to begin with. Corporations have been trying to push this narrative since piracy first became a thing. There is no realistic way to determine how much profit you'd actually get if people didn't "steal" your work, and calling it "theft" is a stretch in the first place since you didn't actually lose anything, including the buyer since you can't prove they'd buy your product otherwise. Plus, the saturation of fakes tends to increase the value of original works, which no one ever seems to care about when trying to argue for the "losses".
     
  7. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    That'd be the hard way. A court ordering the AI generator company to reveal the source artwork and the extent of its usage behind every generated image would be much easier.

    Well, you know that this argument never really stopped being used anywhere. I'm sure it's going to come up here as well soon enough. What the European courts might determine as sensible vs. what's ruled in the US will likely be quite different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2022
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  8. Keneth Gems: 29/31
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    It sounds easy, but the thing about neural networks is that we know how to create them, but we generally don't know what's going on in them once they're up and running. There's a bit of magic going on in there. Even if you tell the AI that you want a picture in the style of Rembrandt, the AI simply analyzes the images and boils them down to a series of coefficients that work to produce an image in a similar fashion. It's not like they have an instruction in there that says "make the image 63.2% more Rembrandt-y". :D
     
  9. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    It sounds kinda fishy to me that they wouldn't know exactly how their system works. Don't see how they could improve it if they didn't. Given that it all boils down to maths, surely the exact numbers behind every output should be possible to generate as well?
     
  10. Beren

    Beren Lovesick and Lonely Wanderer Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Gave it a try myself, with a few search terms. Just based on what I saw, it's hard for me to see original artists losing sleep over the so-called "art" it spits out. :shake:
     
  11. Dice

    Dice ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran

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    The version you tried is fun to play with however it's just a baby version of the real thing. If you search up DALL-E and get on their waiting list they'll contact you with a free trial of 50 prompts and an additional 15 prompts per month after that. I like it just for the entertainment aspect. I made my friend's mother a birthday card with some of the generations and it was hilarious .
     
  12. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

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    You'd be surprised: https://www.pcgamer.com/ai-artist-who-won-competition-says-art-world-is-in-denial-about-the-tech/

    There's a bunch of these and I've seen hundreds of great pieces of art generated by them posted by users on a few different forums I frequent. There's a bunch more generators, e.g. https://creator.nightcafe.studio/ and others. What Midjourney can generate (currently closed beta) is just scary.

    You can easily get professional-grade art out with a bit of trial and error.
     
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