About love

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Hi everybody,

During my life I went through all the opinions that were posted on this thread.
(Applause to Manus for his eloquence.)
I bow to Eze and Arabwel for their stand. For 20 some years I shared those beliefs.
Then something happened.
I won’t pretend that it was (or is) easy. It’s certainly not perfect like in poems or books (fairy tales and whatnot). But the fact is that I changed. Changed for good or bad? I don’t know and I don’t care. I won’t try to argue with you, I won’t tell you my experiences. I won’t even hope for you to find someone to fall in love to change you. You don’t want that. And that’s ok.
But as far as I’m concerned, change is good…

 

Okay, I know I'm going to get more than enough flak for this, but I believe that we as humans are capable if emotion, even if we put up masks - or walls - of hatred, bitterness, or stone.

I believe that love is an emotion. I just don't think it's a term you can pull out of the air and be satisfied with.

To keep it as short as possible, I'll say that since we can't completely reject our humanity, we can't completely reject the idea of love. something I believe transcends our bodily and linguistic capabilities.

Finally, let me be cynical like others for just a moment. Love is bit like trust. A wise man (wiser than I expected, as he was African-American, and dressed in "ghetto" clothing) said that to have trust, you gots to give trust, know what I'm sayin'? I think that to have love from other people, you have to give love. Some people that I know (personally or otherwise) believe that in order to be "cool" or "mysterious" or whatever the image is, things like love, trust, and emotion can't be used. Tch.

 

Well, I'm not feeling very eloquent again today but I'll try

Love, to me, is an intense longing just to be near that special someone, be it your child(ren) or wife/husband or girlfriend/boyfriend or even just a friend.

It is something that constantly changes and grows, I don't mean changing focus (though some of us know from personal experience that it does happen), just, I don't know, changing. Had to explain what I mean.

It never completely goes away, even if things happen that scare us to death, though it may lessen. I guess that's what I meant by 'changing' - though I hate my ex with a passion for what she's doing to my son and I, I still have a form of love for her, simply for the fact that she carried and gave life to my son. It never dies.

TBC...

 

Quote:
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Love in fact does not involve any person but you. It is a connection between yourself and the universe, it is the blossoming of wisdom, compassion, understanding
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I like your description Manus.

Eze - I started this topic because of you. As far as here and now goes, you are right. Love does not exist - for you.

My opinion is that Love, whether it connects us to the universe or hurts like hell, is something that gives us a reason to do things. Without love we might as well be robots.

 

What kind of love are we talking about? There are many kinds of love, parental, religious etc.

 

Obviously the romantic love 'love'. Certainly I believe in love between friends and family, I feel that love for many people, and I at least like to think they do for me as well.

I have further meaning to impart, but no words I know to use for speaking my mind. So I'll just say the following:

I once knew someone who was asked what he looked for in a relationship. After some thinking, he said: "I guess all it needs is that the two of us just want to be together."

That's it. All of it.

The most important things in life are usually very simple by heart.

I don't know how many months passed before I truly understood the meaning of what I'd said. That's when I also realised that most people aren't really looking for what they think. But does that information help me? Now I see more clearly than ever, that love really is a mathematical impossibility.

 

*Runs in and unleashes his Quote Demons*

'A cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.'
No idea who said it, but it is the simple truth.

And was it not you, Ara, who said that reality is inside ones head? Well love comes into that I suppose, if it is in your reality, it exists, though your reality may be different from someone elses.

Me, I'll take a Shura view of things. He can see both sides (from where I'm standing it looks like it anyway )

 

It was Oscar Wilde who said that.

I find it amusing that seasoned teenagers declare love doesn't exist only perhaps because till now all tickling in their belly was due to excessive consumption of beans, or whatever ...

 

Well, I admit that my current cynicism just might be the result of a thing called "rebound"... I thought I knew of love... now I know only bitterness. Well, uyntil I get inenely fascinated again, i think. Or a miracle occurs. or something like that.

Bah. I make no sense.

 

Age is often a good base for arguments such as this. However, it often goes too far into the side of egoism. Some things do not change when people get older. In fact, not nearly as many things do as people seem to think.

Then again, I can understand that a 70-yearold might feel he has the right to claim that a 35-yearold knows nothing about anything, aside from computers perhaps. However, who does know?

Again I wrote a novel, twice. To make it short: More often than not, even a 14 yearold has a pretty good idea of what their life is going to be like. They are in a state of permanent emotional stress and change, of course, but they have the intelligence required to understand the obvious. I did, many of my friends did. And although I'm just a 22 yearold seasoned teenager, I think it's a good time to say now that I know those adults who promised changes and improvement when I was 14, were wrong. Not for the first time.

Nothing has changed. Strength and resolve have come. Cruelty even, to stand what must be faced. But the people are always the same inside. The world still works the same way. What this has to do with love, I have little idea.

 

Well, the amount of cynisim might equal the amount of idealism you had before you crashed your head into a wall.

As for wisdom. I do not think it is acquired by age alone.

Still, I am a proud mammal. I think the way human was build makes them search relationships. This has the possibilty to give great joy. The breaking up or ending of this relationships on the other hand can lead to a nearly unbearable amount of pain.

 

Dragonfly:I know love doesn't exist for me, but I can't see my friends and relatives hurt because of that idiocy.

See, I care about them a bit, but not love them.

Not loving doesn't make us robots. I don't love, but I still do feel other things, so no, not being in love doesn't make people robots.

Splunge: When hell freezes over and Finland wins the Eurovision contest.

Shura: Thanks. I will honor your legacy, Shura the Fourteenth (or was it?).

Aldazar: Condolences, man. May you get over her someway.

And before somebody wonders, there hasn't been any stuff of me being in love with some guy and getting rejected. I am too smart for that and will know what not to pick up from my friend, who was in love 3 years.

 

now is that the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

*sees rumours flying*

 

Actually, these are rather insightful comments. Eze, it appears to me that, rather than not being able to love, you are instead afraid of allowing yourself to love. Perhaps a result of your friend, perhaps a result of other events in your life, or perhaps the result of general insecurity, but you seem to be building a wall to protect yourself from rejection. You will, of course, probably say that I am full of crap (if you bother to say anything at all), but that’s how I see it. (I also find it interesting taht you dismiss the possibility that you will ever fall in love, but you somehow know that you will have a normal sex drive.) All I have to say is that love does exist, and calling people who allow themselves to love ‘idiots’ is merely an indication of the height of your wall. I only hope that you meet someone who sees through your facade and is willing to try to tear the wall down.

 

I agree with Manus at this subject allthough i want to add that love between two people IMHO exists when one gives without waiting (or secretly wishing) for gains of any kind.

...The hard way
We can only understand love through hardships and pain i fear. Not that love does exists only through these feelings but during these sentimental situations that stress us we are really able to see and understand this feeling. Allthough sometimes someone may exploit this vulerability.

Well Eze i would love to see the day you will be in the late teens and fell in love.
To try to prevent this from happening is impossible and the way you close yourself in your world, makes me sad because the day this world shatters around you will be the hardest day of your life.

 

'Tis Ara behind Eze's nick for one last time...

I am pretty freaking sure that Eze is serious of what she says. She won't budge.

She just has to look at me to see what the whole "unrequited love" business does. Trust me on this one.

And no, not just you... (you know who you are...)

I will quitre likely dig up this toppic up later... much later... when I am not on a down/rebounfd phase.

 

A basic set of equations, satisfied? There's also the loving of thy neighbour etc.

No. Not in the romantic sense. I mean... oh well, wrong word. I do have some friendships that are a little bit romantic, so maybe not in 'that' context?

I doubt it. I tend to have the love thy neighbour attitude, though. On some days more in deeds than in words

 

Just to clarify something from my last post, and not by way of having a go at Eze for the comment made in relation to what I posted, I don't actually LOVE my ex so much, I guess it's more that I thank and admire her. I mean, such a wonderful son coming from such a demon-spawn woman means that somewhere in that poison pit that is her mind, there must be something remotely human I guess. The only reason I used the 'L' word is that I read somewhere that you cannot hate someone that you never (don't?) love so I guess that in some form or other I do have a type of love for her.

But actually, I find it very hard to seriously open my heart to anyone, as a result of my fatherless childhood.

Once again, my time is up, TBC...soon.

 

Heck, I love my ex, no question. She has so many amazing qualities. Like anyone else, she has some flaws, too, but who doesn't? I've done things with her and shared things with her and that love will never die. That doesn't mean that sometimes I won't be saddened by her actions, or that I won't be mad enough to spit nails, but the love will always be there, even if the time comes that I end up with someone else.

 

Well, yeah, as I was saying before my time ran out the other day, as a resuly of growing up without a male role model around, and feeling rejected and abandoned (as many in the same situation probably would) I have a very hard time opening myself up to someone, opening my heart to love I guess you could say. Seriously anyway. The physical attraction has never been a problem for me as far as not being able to feel it, in fact I probably feel it a lot more than I should, for more women than I should but I'm trying to deal with that.

Oh ****, wouldn't you know it, my time is up again. I'll try to get a post here done in one sitting soon.