1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

4th edition - rumours and discussion and so on

Discussion in 'Dungeons & Dragons + Other RPGs' started by Beren, Feb 8, 2008.

  1. Faragon Gems: 25/31
    Latest gem: Moonbar


    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,015
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll approach 4th ed with caution.

    If what I hear from friends online is positive, I'll give it a chance. Not through buying books, mind you, cause I'm done forking money to WoTC unless they can prove to keep providing quality books instead of milking the moneymaker. (like they did with a large portion of the complete and the entire races line) I'll borrow or download a copy, try it out in a game and then judge it.

    That said, I like the inclusion of tieflings, but the addition or dragonborn not so much. I like the idea of making a champion for each diety, but it shouldn't be titled 'Paladin' since that's associated too much with the LawfulGood mindset. And Paladin of Evil just sounds dumb.
     
  2. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,224
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
    Just in case anyone hasn't noticed yet, there's a 4e poll running on SP right now, so cast your votes!
     
  3. Morgoroth

    Morgoroth Just because I happen to have tentacles, it doesn'

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    45
    To me later publications of 3rd edition allready became complete heresy. From what I've heard 4th edition makes it only worse. Perhaps I'm just being conservative, but I'll just stick with 2nd edition thank you very much. ;)
     
  4. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    according to the wizard of the coast roundup tal posted on may 4, multi-classing is 2 classes only no more. Also dwarven dodge against giants is now a feat you have to buy not a racial characteristic
     
  5. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    I see the motive for that. The idea is that characters should have a clear focus, but if someone wants 8 different classes, I see no reason why a DM shouldn't give them what they want--a lot of little skills but no real power!
     
  6. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    yes but this also completely kills most prestige classes. no arcane archer, arcane trickster, mystic theurge, ... any that require abilities from more than 1 class
     
  7. diagnull Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd be willing to bet there are plans for "prestige feats" that will mimic 3E prestige classes.

    Of course, that will come later on down the road...it a seperate source book.

    On the one hand, I understand them trying to keep pepople form making crazy multiclassing choices, but on the other hand...it sounds like multiclassing is going to be kind of confusing.
     
  8. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,357
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    224
    Gender:
    Male
    The 4E class progression is quite different than 3E from what I've seen. There really aren't prestige classes, but there is the "paragon path" instead starting at level 11 where it seems in addition to your main class' abilities you gain abilities from another class. Then at level 20 there is an epic path (I forget the actual name).

    I actually like what I've seen so far. They've tried to eliminate the crazy multi-classing abuses in 3E where a level or two of a class are taken just to gain some special abilities that have nothing to do with the main thrust of the character.
     
  9. martaug Gems: 23/31
    Latest gem: Black Opal


    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,710
    Likes Received:
    59
    the stats they are putting up for creatures are wacked!
    a Lvl25 Swordwing with Con26 has 234hp = 9.36/level
    a Lvl26 Crownwing with Con22 has 238hp = 9.15/level

    with a Lvl25 encounter = 4 Swordwings & 1 Crownwings = 1174hp

    4 characters, 1 each fighter, thief, cleric & mage(if they mantain standard hd) = 700(max rolls) + 400(4/level/character for Con) = 1100hp

    whereas

    a Lvl19 Angel of Vengeance with Con23 has 446hp = 23.47/level
    Lvl8 Angel of Valor with Con16 has 88 = 11/level

    with a Lvl19 encounter = 2 A of Vengeance & 3 A of Valor = 1156hp

    4 characters, 1 each fighter, thief, cleric & mage(if they mantain standard hd) = 532(max rolls) + 304(4/level/character for Con) = 836hp
    and the angels have a bunch of more useful abilities than the wings

    it just doesnt seem well thought out:confused:
     
  10. Hethan the Skald Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    1
    That's because the whole philosophy behind HPs (and healing too, but that's a whole other discussion) changed for 4th edition - specially regarding monsters.

    They are moving away from 3e's philosophy of shoehorning monsters into the same rules that apply for PCs because monsters are, well, monsters, and not PCs. They are meant to antagonize the PCs and make them abide to the same "building" logic seems like a waste of time that could be better used with creative thinking.

    As of PCs, now they start with (a lot) more HPs at level 1, but progression from then on became static, and lower too (something like 5 HPs for a Fighter every level, regardless of CON, which will now only influence your initial number and saving throws).
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
  11. Sir Fink Gems: 13/31
    Latest gem: Ziose


    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    576
    Likes Received:
    4
    And that's a bad thing? If you make pizza for a living, you'll be able to earn a paycheck for the rest of your life, assuming people will continue eating pizzas. When you publish gaming books for a living, you have to keep writing new stuff to keep earning that paycheck and feeding your poor, starving children who look up at you with sad eyes and say "daddy... me hungwee" :o Now go out and buy those 4th Edition books darnit!
     
  12. Rawgrim Gems: 21/31
    Latest gem: Pearl


    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trouble is: they don`t even write new stuff. They paste the same stuff into different books. I think I have seen the Black Flame Zealot prestigue class in 4 different books allready, for example. 90 percent of the stuff I have seen of 4th ed, though, is insanely lame. And dumbed down to the extreme. Looks like Diablo, in pen and paper form. So No, I won`t be buying anything from 4th ed. Will stick with playing modifeid 2ed. And Conan (very good rpg by the way, made by mongoose).
     
  13. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'll give fourth edition the benefit of the doubt. If I like it better, I'll schill for it shamelessly. If I don't, I'll stick with 3.5.
     
  14. Hethan the Skald Gems: 5/31
    Latest gem: Andar


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2006
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    1
    They are supposedly moving away from that by avoiding repeating content and also releasing new rules in a more organized way. Only time will tell if that's true, anyway.

    We're only a World of Warcraft comparison away to bringing this thread in line with all the "I hate 4e" threads at the WotC board.
     
  15. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
    Latest gem: Star Sapphire


    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,831
    Likes Received:
    54
    The 4E mechanics I'm ambivalent towards. I like some of it, am annoyed by other parts, but I will wait.

    The 4E FR fluff changes don't sound good though.
    The bastards killed Mystra!
     
  16. Loreseeker

    Loreseeker A believer in knowledge Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,603
    Media:
    69
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Female
    Shaman... your spoiler... tell me you are kidding :eek:
     
  17. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,224
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
  18. Loreseeker

    Loreseeker A believer in knowledge Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,603
    Media:
    69
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Female
    That settles it.

    4th edition officially doesn't exist for me.

    (I know less than little about DnD rules, I admit it, but this is too much.)

    Mystra rules! :p
     
  19. Gnarfflinger

    Gnarfflinger Wiseguy in Training

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    30
    Every time they redo the rules, they make some major changes within the worlds so players will have to buy those books too. Well, the ones that care about said worlds. When they put out third Edition, they sold the licence to the world I liked best and discontinued my second choice. Rumour has it that they won't do much with Ravenloft in 4th either, so I'll be looking in on another message board hoping they have ideas...
     
  20. Rawgrim Gems: 21/31
    Latest gem: Pearl


    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    26
    The also removed the Barbarian, bard, druid, monk, and sorcerer class. As well as the gnome as a race. No more Jan Jansen. I would think that if they wanted to improve stuff, they would add more classes, not remove them.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.