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1 in 5 Americans STILL think Obama is a Muslim

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Aldeth the Foppish Idiot, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Eh? That's proof he's a natural born US citizen... what's that got to do with what religion he affiliates with?
     
  2. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    I thought the thinking that he was Muslim was because his father was Kenyan, and that they then (wrongly) conclude that he was born in Kenya. I agree it's not the same thing, but I thought that was the basis for why thought he was Muslim. I thought, in large part, his religious affiliation and his citizenship were essentially two peas in the same pod.
     
  3. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Nah, they're entirely different pea pods. Same plant, though. You can probably find at least a dozen reasons people believe Obama is a Muslim, his father's nation of origin and his step-father and his nation being among them, but hardly the only ones.

    Incidentally, I asked what Bush had done to be so hated. Most of the responses (though not all) dealt with other people. Likewise, while the Democrats have done plenty to be hated for in the past few years, most of it has not been Obama's fault. At the most, Obama supported actions that others took. And broke campaign promises, but I think that's a requirement for being a politician. Personally, I dislike is stances and rhetoric more than any actual actions he's taken.
     
  4. The Great Snook Gems: 31/31
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    From the gossip pages of the Boston Herald.

    This is an example of what I'm talking about. He doesn't even do the simple things to dissolve this issue and then it just feeds on itself.

    EDGARTOWN - Another Sunday, another missed opportunity for President Obama to prove to America he’s not a Muslim.

    But instead of attending church services at one of the dozens and dozens of quaint, island Christian churches yesterday morning, the commander in chief hit Our Lady of the Fairways, aka the Vineyard Golf Club, yet again, to play 18.

    Obama again teed off with Chicago pal Eric Whitaker and aide Marvin Nicholson . Rounding out the foursome was Bill Lewis, a regular Vineyard vacationer who played with Obama and Whitaker last year. Once again, the press corps was kept far, far away from the presidential golf party.

    Perhaps the Leader of the Free World is a little sensitive about his game. Because our spies report that Barry was hacking away at a ball in the bunker on the 12th hole - a la Judge Elihu Smails - before giving up and throwing it onto the green. Shades of Bill Clinton!

    Anyway, it was Obama’s second outing to the posh, private golf club since landing Thursday on The Rock. The prez teed off at 8:30 a.m. under cloudy, drizzly skies. A perfect day to be inside. Like, say, in church!

    Now you’d think, with polls showing that one in five Americans believe Obama is a Muslim - and with the furor over the president’s flip-flops on the Ground Zero mosque - that his White House handlers might have orchestrated a nice little photo op of the first family doing a little vacation worshiping yesterday morning.

    Because, despite the administration’s insistence that Barry is a Christian and that he prays daily, most Americans have noticed that Obama rarely attends church. That’s a noticeable departure from previous presidents, such as George W. Bush and Clinton, who were on their knees every Sunday.

    Of course, the last time Obama had a regular church, it was Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright fame, and, well, we all know how that turned out.

    The president’s handlers have said Obama doesn’t attend services regularly because he doesn’t want to be “hugely disruptive to congregations.” This is apparently not an issue on the golf course. Especially now that the Secret Service is following the boss in golf carts instead of those giant SUVs they drove down the fairways last year!

    Following the golf game, the prez went back to Blue Heron Farm and spent the rest of the day in seclusion there.

    File Under: Praying for a Better Handicap
     
  5. joacqin

    joacqin Confused Jerk Veteran

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    Yes it is so very unchristian to not want to turn your religious faith into a media spectacle for political gain.
     
  6. Rotku

    Rotku I believe I can fly Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!)

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    Surely not all Christians need to attend church? I would bet that the vast majority of people who tick the Christian box on the censuses don't attend church regularly. Does that mean they're not really Christian, or does this only apply to Presidents?
     
  7. The Shaman Gems: 28/31
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    Snook, I am mildly amused by the article. He was on vacation and did not go to a mosque - doesn't that prove he's not a Muslim?
     
  8. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Why should he, seriously?

    I don't know if I get you right: You do believe Obama is a US citizen? You do believe he is not a Muslim? If you answer the two questions with yes, you are reality based enough to have to concede that you know that the campaign against Obama on both counts is just a classic political smear, with a clearly outlandish touch as far as the topic is concerned.

    Now, if I accuse you of something outlandish, that I make up of thin air, and then expect you to disprove it, though proof or your behaviour, isn't that asking a little much of you? Or not? Let's try: When did you stop beating your wife, Snook? She looks happy, but perhaps she is just intimidated and acting? Mind you, I am just asking for facts. It shouldn't be too difficult to dispel my reasonable concerns, right?

    How do you answer without agreeing with the implication? How do you not answer without appearing evasive?

    The question why Obama doesn't provide his birth certificate is similarly loaded. The obvious implication is that he doesn't because he has something to hide. The fact that he did provide it doesn't matter. That isn't good enough. If one harps on the difference in the name of the certificate - 'certificate of life birth' vs. 'birth certificate' - one can confuse the uninformed enough to imply that there is a substantial legal difference between the two. Alas, there isn't. That doesn't deter the whackos clinging to that nonsenses.

    Or the accusation that he is a Muslim: You don't inherit your Islamic faith through the bloodline, similar to becoming a born again Christian, it requires a symbolic submission to Allah to become a Muslim, by simply uttering the shadada - there is no indication whatsoever that Obama ever did that, and indeed, since his dad was an atheist it is exceedingly unlikely, but who cares? After all, while he doesn't go to mosque, he doesn't go to church too often either. He could be a secret Muslim and a false Christian. There is nothing Obama could ever do to overcome that. He cannot dispel that easily through reasonable argument or proof.

    Which is why the smear is effective and the rumour so persistent in the first place.
     
  9. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

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    On that we agree. That's because politicians are asked their opinion on so many issues that it's nearly impossible to do all of them without making contradictory policy decisions. For example, you cannot really cut the deficit when you pass health care reform, have two wars going on, and massive unemployment. You simply cannot do all of them.

    All Christians do not regularly attned church. I do not think that the Census form requires you to list a religion affiliation. In fact, I don't even remember the census form I received this spring asking the question.

    However, devout Christians do go to church regularly - at the very least regularly on Sunday. The religous right aren't exactly fanatical supports of Obama to begin with. Most of the people who are unhappy with his lack of attendance at church probably wouldn't vote for him anyway, and if they get to say he's a Muslim because of it to boot - even better!
     
  10. AMaster Gems: 26/31
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  11. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Apparently, in the same poll, they discovered that 40% of Americans either believe Bush was behind 9/11 or that he knew about it before hand. Ragusa was right, this isn't a liberal belief. There aren't that many liberals in the US.

    Right now, I'm embarrassed be an American.
     
  12. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

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    Only about 19 percent claimed to be liberal in the same poll, with moderates being the largest portion of voters. The 19% sounds about right to me.
     
  13. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Well, yeah, but this was a very badly worded question on the part of the pollsters. Bush being behind 9/11 and knowing about it beforehand are two mutually exclusive ideas, and shouldn't be lumped together. There is very little evidence (none of it compelling) that Bush was in any way involved in the planning or execution of 9/11. There's rather compelling evidence, however, that members of the Bush administration (and Bush himself) received ample warning that an attack was coming and did nothing to prevent it. So I suspect the "knew it beforehand" portion comprises the overwhelming majority of that group.
     
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  14. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    On target:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    I cannot remember the Tom Clancy book, but in it a powerful Muslim country had seeded "sleeper agents" in a number of countries. One of those sleeper agents (posing as a bodyguard) assassinated another Muslim leader referred to, IIRC, as "The Mustache" (ie Saddam). One of the main plot lines was a Muslim sleeper agent who had been "asleep" for decades and who had managed to become a US Secret Service agent protecting the President himself (I can't remember if it was Ryan at the time or his predecessor). This agent got within a hair's breadth of killing the President before some Red Blooded Americans took him down (inflicting maximum pain in the process.)

    The idea seemed to be that there are fanatical Muslims out there who can totally fly underneath the radar, even going so far as to "eat a pork sandwich" and such in order to maintain their cover. Then, at the right time, they will pop up and attack the nation that sheltered them. Therefore, we must be suspicious at all times of all people.

    In terms of Obama, I believe that a lot of Americans possess a similar mindset. He is the Other, and no matter what he does or says, well, of COURSE a sleeper will maintain his cover. Bond doesn't wander around with a Union Jack tattooed to his forehead. Therefore, proof and evidence don't enter into their thinking. Paranoia at its worst.
     
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  16. Ragusa

    Ragusa Eternal Halfling Paladin Veteran

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    Astute observation. Repped!
     
  17. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Well, the general paranoia has been fed recently by strings of attacks from radicalized muslims who were born in the US or lived here a long time and had blended in.

    As for Obama being the other, I don't know. It kind of seems like he's either The One or Not The One (love a good Zathras quote), depending on your position, with very few people left in the middle.
     
  18. Drew

    Drew Arrogant, contemptible, and obnoxious Adored Veteran

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    That's because there is no middle regarding Obama's religion. None. No reasonable person would look at the mental gymnastics necessary to believe Obama is actually a secret Muslim who's been hiding his faith for... decades? or that he has somehow been able to snooker Hawaii, Illinois, and the Federal Government of the United States into allowing him to run for the highest office in the land when he wasn't actually a natural born citizen because he was... born in Kenya? Never mind that Obama had to submit documents proving his citizenship when he ran for the Illinois state Senate. Never mind that he had to submit documents proving his citizenship when he ran for the US senate. Never mind that he had to submit documents proving his citizenship and his natural born status when he won the Democratic nomination. Never mind that he actually did publicly release his Hawaiian birth certificate. Never mind that birth announcements were released in several Hawaiian newspapers when he was born. Never mind that even if the president was born in Kenya, he'd still be a natural born citizen since, last I've checked, no one is contesting the citizenship of Obama's mother.

    NOG, you don't find people "in the middle" on issues like this because there simply is no middle to be found. Obama is Muslim or he isn't. He's a natural born citizen or he isn't. There's no evidence whatsoever that Obama is Muslim, and quite a lot of evidence that he is at least nominally Christian*. That he is a natural born citizen is both documented and empirical.

    * An objective analysis would indicate that Obama is quite a bit more than "just" nominally Christian, too, unless you define "Christian" so narrowly that it only includes your "brand."
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  19. LKD Gems: 31/31
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    But Drew, that lack of evidence just shows how good he is at covering up his Islamic beliefs!

    I know a few people who really think that way. Heartbreaking.

    As for NOG's comment, I think he was just saying that a lot of people don't relate to him because he is different (read that any way you like!). I don't think NOG was implying that there's any objective basis for believing Obama's a Muslim. He's made his position on that clear.
     
  20. NOG (No Other Gods)

    NOG (No Other Gods) Going to church doesn't make you a Christian

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    Thanks for the rant misinterpreting my post, Drew, but I was talking about Obama in general, not necessarily concerning any of these specific items. I think (though I may be corrected) that LKD was talking in similar terms. Some people who don't know how to place that general unease, or who just don't feel the need to think for themselves, may blame it on him being a Muslim, or an illegal alien, or just an alien, or something.
     
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