Charisma and diplomacy

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QUESTION! To anyone so kind to answer.

Is charisma used for anything other than casting and store prices? I tested a handful of characters with different char and diplo scores when you first encounter those soldiers in Targos. High and low char doesn't seem to make you any more or less likable in Targos (in BG, for example, give your character low char and everyone treats you like a barbaric idiot). Anyways, back to the beginning test, with 18 char you can ask for the extra equipment. With 5 char plus 4 diplo you get the same options. Now, since your party talker is going to have diplo anyways, is charisma necessary? I only have this one test to go on, so I'm asking people who obviously have much more experience than me with the game. I'm guessing from my limited experience that high diplo is the same as high charisma.

 

Ok, just to be clear your diplomacy score (and bluff and intimidate, they work exactly the same) is your diplomacy skill points + your charisma modifier (if negative then this brings it down obviously). So yes they are the same thing in that your overall score is the two added together.

The dialogue skills aren't used in the vast majority of talking you do during the game. Occassionally you'll be given a response option which clearly falls under one of the three categories. For the response to work your overall diplomacy score will need to be at least as high as the difficulty score assigned to that response (you will not be told what this is). It's not 100% necessary to use the dialogues, you'll always be able to fight your way through but occassionally you'll get better items or some such from using the talk option.

Most people will designate one character that they'll use to do all of their 'talking.' He should have at least a decent Int (so he can spare skill points in the dialogue skills) and a decent Cha (the modifier is worth the same as a lot of skill points, especially when you consider it affects all three skills). A really high skilled character could of course still do the job with a bad Cha but as it's only Cha that affects store prices and not the skills I'd be reluctant to go down that route.

Bards and Sorcerers are obviously the best choice for the talker if you have one. Cha is their most important stat anyway. Paladin's use Cha but refuse some quest awards so can be a bit dodgy to use (and will probably want to dump Int so no skills). Rogues and Wizards should have the Int to get a lot of skill points. They've no use for Cha themselves unless they're the designated talker but they can probably get away with crimping back on some of the physical stats as they're not front line fighters.

 

You won't get access to certain dialogue options unless you meet a minimum CHA requirement, but these are only a few, so it isn't crucial for gameplay. There are also a few WIS and INT requirements in the game, for dialogue options.

 

That's how it is supposed to work in 3E, though its certainly possible that there might be a few dialogues/quests that only look at CHA.

It's nice to have the party talker be a bard/sorc so you can save on skill points, but regardless, you don't want to be raising CHA above 3 for any other class.

 

Paladins also get to add it to their saving throw scores so it's important to them too. As Int is the only attribute they don't use though it's not easy to maximise it.

While most disagree I find the turn undead ability very handy for clerics. Undead are fairly rare in the game but turn undead is awesome against them and is affected by Cha. Still, I wouldn't go overboard on this, you'll only get to use it the odd time. 10 - 12 Cha at most and I certainly wouldn't take any of the feats. If you're not planning on your cleric being a frontliner it's nice to be able to use it. If you think your cleric is going to be spending most of his time in melee stick to the physical stats (a melee oriented cleric is generally considered the most powerful character in the game by the way).

 

Technically, paladins do need some skillpoints, so in a way they even require INT... So, to summarize:

They need STRength, for combat
They need DEXterity, average DEX anyway, for their Armour Class, Reflexes, and ranged attack.
They need CONstitution, for staying power in melee, Fortitude, and Concentration.
They need INTelligence, to aquire skillpoints, for skills obviously.
They need WISdom, for willpower and spellcasting. And
They need CHArisma, for saving throw bonuses and conversation skills (which are poor anyway, since it can't accept rewards).

So there are no dumpstats for min-maxing. No wonder I hate paladins - they're a powergamer's nightmare!

 

And for evil priests, it would be useful for controlling the undead. Priests of Bane get some bonuses to, I believe, Bluff and Intimidate. Having some Charisma for him would be beneficial, he could be your party speaker, if you take the evil path that is....

 

You should be able to turn undead quite well even with only 1 cha since the maximum turnable undead level roll doesn't check for the charisma modifier.