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Wizard

Discussion in 'Neverwinter Nights (Classic)' started by Gothmog, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. Gothmog

    Gothmog Man, a curious beast indeed! ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    I've yet again started to play NwN and, hopefuly improved my classical version of a wizard. It's a true munchkin build, but here it goes...

    Wizard 40 - Necromancer
    Gnome
    Neutral

    Starting Attributes (Ending Attributes)
    STR 10 (10)
    DEX 8 (8)
    CON 18 (18)
    INT 18 (38)
    WIS 8 (8)
    CHA 8 (8)

    All attribute increases go to INT.

    Feats:
    lvl 1 - Spell focus: Evocation
    lvl 3 - G. Spell focus: Evocation
    lvl 5 - Spell Focus: Necromancy
    lvl 6 - G. Spell Focus: Necromancy
    lvl 9 - Extend spell
    lvl 10 - Spell Focus: Conjuration
    lvl 12 - Spell Focus: Transmutation
    lvl 15 - Maximize Spell, Empower Spell
    lvl 18 - Spell Penetration
    lvl 20 - G. Spell Penetration
    lvl 21 - E. Spell Focus: Necromancy
    lvl 23 - E. Spell Focus: Evocation
    lvl 24 - E. Spell Penetration
    lvl 26 - Great Intelligence I
    lvl 27 - Great Intelligence II
    lvl 29 - Great Intelligence III
    lvl 30 - Great Intelligence IV
    lvl 32 - Great Intelligence V
    lvl 33 - Great Intelligence VI
    lvl 35 - Great Intelligence VII
    lvl 36 - Great Intelligence VIII
    lvl 38 - Great Intelligence IX
    lvl 39 - Great Intelligence X

    HP: 360
    AB: 20/15 (you're a melee machine! :p )
    Skill points: 381
    Concentration 43
    Heal 43
    Spellcraft 43
    Search 1
    Tumble 20

    Saving Throws (vs. Spells)
    FORT 20 (31)
    REF 15 (26)
    WILL 21 (32)


    Pros:
    Full fledged wizard. If you have access to +7 combined INT bonus from items it has the best DCs. best spell duration, penetration, damage on uncapped spells. Most spells per day achievable by wizards. Massive HP for a wizard.

    Cons:
    Low AC (can actualy be a bonus in right circumstances). Relatively low saves. Only worthwhile spell lost: True Sight. Low AC. No melee presence(except in certain circumstances).


    Gnome for: +2CON -2STR. We're raising CON high and STR not, so it's a clear bonus. Racial Spell focus: illusion. Color spray is a very useful(except for lvl3-4) spell, allowing you a quick escape when all other spells are depleted. Will save - Stun for 2-5 rounds. It's DC wont be anything spectacular, being a lvl1 spell. It starts at DC17 and ends at DC26. Can be a lifesaver. Small Stature - still able to wield staves(not quarterstaffs!) +1 AC and immunity to Evard's Black tentacles (small stature). +2 to saves against mind affecting spells. +2 bonus on concentration checks.

    Neutral alignment for any occasional alignment specific attacks/defences that come our way. Protection from evil/good, smite good/evil,...

    As far as stats go, i prefer 10 strenght for lugging capacity. If you have a carrying mule or Bags of holding -100% aplenty, feel free to lower it. Beware though, should anything lower your strenght. It does not happen often, but when it does, you're pretty much fried when you try to crawl away. Maximised Bull's strenght is your friend. All others stats are self-explanatory, i belive.

    Feats. This is the main part. Necromacy and Evocation are simply the best two offensive schools. There's no argument here. They receive full Spell Focus strings each. Conjuration and Transmutation are optional, but i like them. Transmutation is very limited, i only take it for one spell - Flesh to Stone. It's Fortitude, but immunity to it is extra super rare, unlike Death magic immunity which is all too often. 6th lvl spell. There's also lvl3 Slow, which is moderately useful.
    Conjuration mainly for Flame Arrow (10x 4d6 damage is nothing to scoff at) and Evard's Black tentacles. First a fairly common spell, very powerful in right circumstances, but it's effectivnes quickly diminishes as soon as the enemy posses some Fire damage reduction, since the damage splits up in 10 parts of 4d6 damage, instead of one large chunk. This is both an advantage and a disadvantage. One one hand, a single casting of this spell at lvl40 counts as 30 spell levels against enemy Spell Mantles. As said before, any fire damage reduction nulifiys it quickly. Also, enemies get to save against each arrow. It's a reflex save, so Evasion and Imp. Evasion come into play as well. It is targeted against a single target, unlike Missile Storms, which is a bonus.
    Evard's black tentacles is possibly the most debated arcane spell. Some people totaly discard it, others use it to great effect. The main point is that it's useful only in specific circumstances. First, it doesnt affect small creatures or smaller. It's effectivness also diminishes with larger than medium sized creatures. Second, the lower strenght and BAB the enemy has, the more chance for it to work better. Empowered version can make some supreme damage. It's physical damage, which can also be both an advantage and a disadvantage. If you cast it besides a spellcaster, it's sure to keep eating at him (or his Stoneskin), even if his Spell mantle is up! Also, besides high STR, BAB and size, there's nothing that can stop the damage and FORT saves it forces the enemies in it's area of effect to make. Spell resistance is useless against it. Finaly a weapon against high SR spellcasters/assassins and such. As long as they're not Small. Then it becomes useless. So, when you meet a mixed group of enemies and the warriors rush you, the usual tactics is to stop the rushers. Hopefuly, if you have the summon, it can hold them off for half a round, which you need to cast Evard's Black tentacles at the enemies in the back, eliminating them out of the game. Another at your feet for good measure, should any sneak attackers stalk towards you (no True Sight).
    So much for Conjuration.

    Maximize, Empower and Extend. They serve two functions. First is obvious, it augments the spell. Unfortunately, it does not highten it - It's DC stays the same. The other fuction is that it allows you to not only memorize a whole spell level of a particiular spell, but three, possibly even four!
    This is even more useful for sorcerers, but cannot be disregarded with a wizard either. Say, you know you're going to a cryp full of undead. You'll memorize lvl6 Undeath to death. You'll also be able to memorize Empowered versions at spell lvl 8 and Maximised at lvl9. That simply triples spell effectivness.

    Skill points are something you have more than you need, Concentration and Spellcraft are the only two that need to be maxed at all times. Heal is useful, if your gameworld allows healing kits. Usualy not for yourself, but for your summon, which you dont want to die with a dozen of your buffs on. Tumble for AC, but it's optional. That 4 AC isnt going to make much difference. If you're being mauled, you dont have any other option than hide/run anyway. 1 rank in Search because of the INT bonus to it. Non-rogues are only able to detect traps up to DC35. With 38 natural INT, it makes +15 bonus. You're likely to have another +6 modifier to INT from enchantments and items anyway.

    Saving throws are nothing spectacular. Against spells they fare well enough, but as a wizard, you're supposed to be smart! stay out of trouble, put something between you and your enemies, be it summon, traps, henchmen, party members or charmed monsters. This way, you normaly dont get to make saving throws. Extended Spell Mantles are also immensely useful. 80 rounds lasts a good while, well worth that one spell slot.


    That's about it for now, i've another idea i'm munching in my head, but it's far from perfected yet. If it turns out to be profitable, i'll edit the whole build. In the meanwhile, i'm looking forward to any comments/criticistm on the build :)
     
  2. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

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    Very detailed. But how often do you ever get to level 40 in a game?
     
  3. Gothmog

    Gothmog Man, a curious beast indeed! ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    That's one aspect of this build that i love, HB ;)
    There's no need to get to lvl40 to get this build to work. It basicaly functions at lvl3 already and all that loooong way towards 40. You arent "waiting" to get that BAB+5 or a cross class skill to 6 or maybe an open feat so you can take a useless feat so you can proceed with another class/prc, and finaly, at clvl39 get your main attack. You just focus on your spells, from day 1 forward. As you progress, all you get is diversity. First you summon and hang back. Then you summon, buff and hang back. Soon you help the summons with disabling/damaging spells already. Then you get to the stage when summons arent the main damage machine anymore and they just serve as a meat shield.
    All this is a normal progression, which is really the most smooth as possible with a spellcaster.

    I do get to level 40 in a game. Not often, i grant you, but i do. Of course not in OC, this character isnt optimised for the OC, simply too specialised for that. But multiplayer worlds are aplenty, with this char you can absolutely dominate low and med magic worlds and hold your own just fine on high magic worlds. Here, it isnt such a big deal to get to lvl40.
     
  4. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    @Gothmog: Why are you taking ESF in Evocation?? Wouldn't you be better served using those feats for ESF in another school? I'm assuming you are taking Transmutation for the DC bonus on Flesh to Stone which has no immunities...

    Conjuration is probably a better school to focus in than Evocation in this particular case IMO. Apart from Flame Arrow and Evard's Black Tentacles, you also get excellent crowd control through Web, Stinking Cloud, Acid Fog (IIRC this is Conjuration) etc...Evocation...meh. You use Fireballs and Chain Lightnings and what not...and odds are Imp. Evasion negates half your damage right off the bat! Why not take Conjuration and force your enemies to make fortitude saves...while you use spells like Ice Storm, Bigbys and IGMS etc to great effect?

    Of course, taking Evocation does have its benefits...such as Sunburst (permanent BLINDNESS!! Its like a Holy Word on STEROIDS!!) and Cloud of Bewilderment at lower levels (stun & blind for 1d6 rounds with a fort save...pretty powerful for a lvl 2 spell)...

    Then again, they are just my take on things, and if you want to take Evocation as an ESF, it wouldn't hurt you...Nice build over all...kudos!

    Edit: I just noticed, you don't have Epic Warding! What are you thinking!??!?!?!?! Dude, you don't even have Premonition as your forbidden school is Divination...you have to get Epic Warding! I say ditch ESF Evocation or Epic Spell Penetration...its your call...but get Epic Warding!
     
  5. Gothmog

    Gothmog Man, a curious beast indeed! ★ SPS Account Holder Veteran

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    I admit, i took ESF evocation mostly out of habit. I didnt actualy go out an review each spell. As this characters is definitely still lacking in feats, it's a very fair question whether evocation deserves ESF.

    After looking through the evocation save spells, i'm still not decided. What i noticed most about them is, that aside from cold damage from Ice Storm, every other elemental damage is a save-included Evocation spell. There's Melf's acid arrow that's not evocation for acid damage... beyond that, you have negative and magical damage to rely on. Of course, in 99% these two types are in fact far more reliable. Still, i like to use enemy's weaknesses. Fireballs and Firebrand against ice dragons and his lackeys and Cone of cold vice versa.
    In most situations though, Isaac's missile storms work better.
    There's some other great spells there, besides Bigby's and Storms.
    On CoB (Cloud of Bewilderment). There's another attractive point to this spells. In any full PvP area servers, wizards are a pain to play because they require absolute precision when casting AoE spells. This is one of the rare useful gems that affects only enemies.
    Sunburst. Eventhough i knew the description, i never quite got to use it actively. That blindness effect just screams out USE ME :D

    I really cant decide to drop ESF or not eyt. More time for testing again, i suppose.


    I'm not overly concerned over the loss of Premonition. As most people've come to notice, by the time you get it, it's usualy redundant, since the enemies you need damage reduction from, breach it with enchanted enough attacks.


    Epic warding.. another tough call. There's a few reasons for this, but it depends a lot on where you play. If you're likely to get simply blundered to death at end levels, by all means, take it. By playing smart, such occasions drasticaly decrease, but every mage finds himself in close quarters with a melee enemy sooner or later. In my experience, sheer damage is not really a problem. I'm hasted, i run away before he can land too many hits on me to seriously injure me. Knockdown, Stunning fist, or any other special attacks combined with physical damage is what takes a mage down. E.Warding doesnt save you from it, but it does delay it for quite a while. If you've summons strong enough to kill the attacker in the meanwhile, or a party swinging away at him, you're most likely saved. Without E.Warding, your survival time drops to maybe about 10% of the E.Warding living time.
    In PvP, it's a needed spell. In PvM, it's highly advisable, but not absolutely needed. If you want to go PvP, take a sorc :p
    I for one, prefer to do without it most of the time. It just breaks down my concept of a "glass cannon" wizard. Horrifying spell power, but little in terms of direct defence. I like to give my enemies at least a *tiny* thread of hope when they're fighting against my wizard ;)
    But like i said.. most people would notice (and enjoy) E.Warding far more than having an extra +2DC on a certain spell. Makes for a more all around build.


    More comments please. Criticism too, of course, it's needed :)
     
  6. Faraaz Gems: 26/31
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    Ah...I can see that I clearly need to come by this part of BoM more often...but anyways. On with the comments! :D

    If you want to take ESF:Evocation, its your call mate. Its just that with all my lvl 40 builds, I don't bother with ESF Evocation because:

    * Either your enemies will have INSANELY high reflex saves, usually coupled with Improved Evasion, which makes all your foci moot. Or they'll be dumb tanks with the dexterity of an elephant, and will fail their save regardless, thanks to your stratospheric INT.

    * When using spells of elements corresponding to an enemies weakness, even a successful save is hardly sufficient to negate the pwnage weakness to said element will wreak. Of course, if the weakness is not significant, using specific spells for specific enemies is again, moot.

    If you are on a full PvP server, then MOST of your Evocation spells which rely on a save are AoE based. Seriously except for Firebrand, all you have left is Fireball, Cone of Ice, Lightning bolt and Chain Lightning. Oh, and Delayed Blast Fireball, Meteor Swarm...what else? Anyway, as you can see, MOST of these are AoE. I assume you will only concentrate on AoE friendly spells...but you are again confining yourself to using fewer spells which fully take advantage of your higher DCs in the spell school.

    Now, if you were to take these spell focus feats in Conjuration instead, you would have Flame Arrow which is as good as, if not better than Fireball when it comes to direct damage, and it is party-friendly. Sure, it doesn't hurt everyone, but you can't have EVERYTHING for nothing. :p

    Again you have excellent crowd control, and its nothing a few buffs on your party members wont render them immune to. I still say go for Conjuration. Besides, you would still have Greater Spell Focus Evocation, if you stick to your original build, and IMO, that extra +2 DC is going to be of more use to you when it comes into play deciding whether your enemies fail their fort. save on Stinking Cloud or not...rather than whether that Red Dragon with 400 HP takes an extra 30 damage from your Cone of Cold or not...

    Finally, Epic Warding...Um...no offense, but I find your rationalisation lacking with regards to defense. Your Wizard is NEVER going to have enough AC to keep him alive. Sure, no defense as a RP concept is good and all, but when you are getting mobbed, you will sure wish you had some sort of last resort.

    Oh and I know Premonition is often rendered irrelevant due to higher enchantments on enemy weapons...but then, that's what Epic Warding is for. +20 enchantments should be non-existent on ANY server.

    Furthermore, saying that only Knockdown and Stunning Attack can disable your Wizard are non-realistic in my opinion. What if you are in a fight-or-die situation? What if you are fighting in a story based battle (eg: Against Mephistopheles in HoTU) where running away is not an option?? You will certainly wish you had Epic Warding then...especially when your enemy is immune to the status effects you are trying to inflict on him with your superior DC spells...

    In conclusion, IMO, Epic Warding would enhance your already great Wizard build further! :thumb:

    Good luck!
     
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