What do you think of my party?

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Hi,

I've created a new custom party for SoA and ToB. The main aim is to be powerful in ToB however. I have a couple of questions about them, which I will ask throughout this topic. Also, any comments and suggestions to make them more powerful are welcome.
BTW: I'm a powergamer

O, and sorry for the length of the text, I understand if you guys don't feel like reading through it entirely, but I hope to get some good advice.

1. Glorfindel, elf sorcerer
STR 10 DEX 19 CON 16 INT 13 WIS 18 CHA 10
Since I think a sorcerer is the most powerful character in BG2, I had to have one. In the beginning of the game he won't be very powerful yet, but he isn't really a burden as well.
What spells do you think would be best to let him have?(he's going to be mainly offensive)

2. Mahadre, human kensai/thief
STR 18/97 DEX 18 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 16 CHA 3
This guy is going to be really powerful and will later on have the use any item ability. He's going to dualwield long swords, but then I still have 9 profiency points left, so I don't know what to do with them (probably katana's or something). Also, what do you think the best one handed swords are?

3. Pavel, human wizardslayer/thief
STR 18/76 DEX 18 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 4
This guy is going to be my nightmare to wizards. When he gets the use any item ability, he'll wield the Carsomyr and I'll make sure he has over 100% MR. Furthermore, he's a fighter, so he's strong anyway .

4. Kor, human berserker/cleric (but made him look like a dwarf for the fun of it )
STR 18/67 DEX 16 CON 16 INT 10 WIS 18 CHA 3
My substitute for the Undead Slayer. Wielding the mace of disruption and runehammer along with his turn undead ability, not much undead are likely to survive. Don't really know at what level to dual him though.

5. Shahanna, elven archer
STR 18/87 DEX 19 CON 13 INT 10 WIS 18 CHA 15
When I started this class, I didn't expect it to be very powerful, but I just wanted to play it, because everybody's talking about it. I've seen I was wrong though, because she's only level 8 and already she has 4 attacks per round and a very good THAC0. She's responsible for almost half of the killings up until now (Chapter 2, just starting). I was thinking of giving her profiency in scimitars just for the hell of it. I mean, there are some good scimitars in the game and it would be a waste to pass on them.
I was also thinking of dualling her to a cleric some time, if she could still use bows then.

(6. Graum, Half-Orc Cleric/Thief
STR 16 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 8 WIS 18 CHA 3
I didn't really want this one, but since I have no clerics or thieves at the start, I thought I'd just make one. He has sword and shield style and maces/morningstars. He's actually only there for making me stronger and avoiding traps and I'm going to replace him when I'll dualclass my fighters. Anybody know any decent cleric spells?)

6. yet to think of a name, Half-Orc Kensai
Stats probably:
STR 19 DEX 18 CON 19 INT *not lower than 8* WIS *rest* CHA 3
I haven't yet created him and I'm not even certain it'll be a half-orc kensai. I think kensais are great however and I want a pure fighter, because of the abilities. He'll be dualwielding axes and a sword type that Mahadre didn't choose (bastard swords probably). This will be the replacement of Graum.


What I want out of my party:
They have to be powerful
They have to be able to use a large variety of equipment, because I think it is a waste to pass on good equipment

Questions:
What spells would you pick for a sorcerer?
If you had 4 hands what (non-blunt) weapons would you put into them (for dualwielding)?
At what levels should I dualclass?
Should I dualclass my archer, or are there great advantages of being a pureclass archer?
What should be the replacement character for the cleric/thief?
What do you think of my party overall?
Any comments are also welcome.

 

Give him some more points in CHA - that is very important to him (like STR is for fighter)
(or is it only in IWD 2, where CHA is important?)
Give him any area of effect spells and some targeted missiles (Magic Missiles, Acid Arrow, etc.)

The Kensai/Thief looks alright to me.

So does everything else.

Good Luck!

 

Well, as for dualclassing your archer ... that would be pretty hilarious as you could only dual him into a cleric resulting in you loosing the ability to use the ranged weapons the archer excells in: bows and crossbows.
How about this: Try a multiclassed half-elf ranger cleric instead.

Good one handed sword: IMO the best around early in the game is the blade of roses - it'll serve you well beyond the end of underdark. Highly recommended: +3 weapon, 2d4+3 damage and a nice to have +2 charisma bonus.
Beats even Namarra IMO. Later on there are some excellent longswords around, namely the equaliser, answerer (awesome for kensais), angurvadal and many more.
And of course there are b'swords: Jhor the bleeder and the blade of searing in underdark and especially foebane later on.

I found it good to have a versatile character such as a ranger or a paladin, able to use a wide variety of weapons from one-handed to two-handed, with or without shield.

As for the cleric thief: IMO they aren't that fun to play because of their hidden ability slots; I clearly prefer a gnomish-illusionist thief or an elven mage-thief then.

Your party is pretty ballanced and you shouldn't encounter too many problems playing.

 

I don't know if i would pick a halforc for the pure kensai. Perhaps you should read the 'random opinions about the half orc' thread. What i want to say is: I think a dwarf is better for your kensai because of the better saving throws. The 1 ac isn't much and 1 str is nothing in the end because you'll have girdles of giant strengh.

And if you take a pure kensai perhaps your sorcerer should learn the 4th level spell that gives ac1 for some hours?

 

IIRC isn't CHA important for the sorcerer in BG2, neither is INT...

 

Everyone's right with the sorcerer. The CHA bonus is a 3rd edition rule, so it doesn't apply here.

As for your party, most of what you have looks OK to me, but I will give some suggestions.

1. First of all, as was already said, do not dual your archer to a cleric. First of all, I think archers couldn't dual class (and I don't understand that reasoning, as regular rangers can dual to clerics), and secondly, for some other totally strange reason, archers aren't allowed to get 5 points in slings, so you'd be ruining the archer kit by doing that.

2. It seems like you're going to have a whole lot of thieves. You're going to have a half-orc multi-class thief, and two other fighters that are going to be dualling into thieves. I completely fail to see the advantage of this. There is never any reason to have two full-time thieves. I would recommend you keep the kensai, dualled to a thief to get the backstab, and you can still have him use the Holy Avenger - you can't use a shield anyway - so why not a two-handed weapon?

3. As far as when to dual-class, you have a few choices. If you want to maximize your fighter hitpoints, then dual after you hit level 9, as that's the last level fighters get a d10 for hit point increases. However, if you are patient enough, it is a great idea to wait until level 13, especially if you are using a kensai, because:

A. At level 13 all fighters and kits get a bonus 1/2 attack per turn.

B. At level 13 you will get your next to hit and damage adjustment - you'll be at +5 to hit and +5 to damage. The progression is as follows:
Level 1-3: +1/+1
Level 4-6: +2/+2
Level 7-9: +3/+3
Level 10-12: +4/+4
Level 13-15: +5/+5

So, by waiting to level 13 instead of 9, not only do you get the extra half attack, you also hit more often, and do two more points of damage with every successful hit.

C. You'll get your next bonus to speed factor (-2) and an additional kai ability. This progression table looks like this:
Level 1-4: -2 speed factor, 1 Kai per day
Level 5-8: -4 speed factor, 2 Kais per day
Level 9-12: -6 speed factor, 3 Kais per day
Level 13-16: -8 speed factor, 4 Kais per day

So you get an extra Kai and an additional -2 to speed factor by waiting until 13 instead of 9. The speed factor isn't all that big a deal compared to the Kai though. Most swords have speed factors of less than 6 anyway, so it will be reduced to 0 whether it's at -6 or -8.

D. Level 13 is the maximum level you can attain as a fighter (or kit) and still hit your maximum level (40) as a thief.

There really isn't any reason to rush the development of this character, since you're going to have another thief in the party (the half-orc multi) so I would maximize his benefit, and take him to level 13. He won't regain his abilities till sometime in the Underdark in all likelihood (he will need a total of around 2.5 million experience points), but he'll be unstoppable at that point.

As far as a replacement character, do it as soon as you dual your kensai and beserker, as then your half-orc theif/cleric is totally expendable. I would take an Inquisitor (assuming this isn't an evil party). That way there, you still get to use Carsomyr, and you get another front-liner. I would leave your wizard-slayer as a wizard-slayer. The inquisitor/wizard-slayer front line should wipe out any spell caster from the planet. The reason I wouldn't dual the wizard-slayer is because you really don't need another thief for one, and because you can't use any magical items with the exception of armor and weapons (and this includes things like potions, rings, amulets, etc), you're not going to get to use a lot of the cool equipment specifically designed for theives.

For single handed, non-blunt weapons? Hmmm... That's a tough one. For the Kensai, I'd say go for Angurvadal and Foebane (both upgraded) which means you'll need to specialize in long swords and bastard swords. Take long swords first, because there are so many more good long swords in SoA than Bastard Swords.

For the wizard slayer, that's a little tougher. I would have to say Axe of the Unyielding, Flail of the Ages. (I know, technically a Flail counts as a blunt weapon, but if you're using an axe, I can't see you wielding a sword in your other hand.) If you are completely set on swords, I guess I'd go for Spectral Brand and Usano's Blade or Blem (meaning you only need to specialize in scimitars).

The beserker cleric - take you pick of two out of the following three - Crom Faeyr, Flail of the Ages, Runnehammer

Inquisitor - Carsomyr

Archer - I'd go for Short Bows actually - Gesen is probably the best bow for damage in the game.

[ August 01, 2003, 18:29: Message edited by: Aldeth the Foppish Idiot ]

 

Multi-classing in ToB is considered by many to be much better than dual-classing. There is a very good discussion on this here

I’m pretty sure than you can dual an archer to a cleric, because I have seen several references to it in other threads, but I think it may require a mod. And anyway, Aldeth is right - it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to do so anyway for the reasons he stated (unless the mod takes care of that, too).

There does seem to be a lot of thieves, and unless you are going to be using them for backstabbing en masse, Aldeth is right; it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

As an alternative to the berserker/cleric, you might consider a M/C ranger/cleric. 2 free points in dual-wield, plus all priest (cleric and druid) spells available based on your cleric level.

 

I'd like to thank everybody for their replies and I will respond to some things you said:

First of all, I don't think I have that many thieves. I will have 2 at the same time at the most and the reason for that isn't that I like thieves that much, but that I want the use any item ability.

One of you said to leave the wizardslayer a pure one, because due to his restrictions, he won't be able to wear cool thief items. I actually would dual him because the restriction would be negated. After that I would give him Carsomyr and probably the human flesh armor (I'm good aligned, but since I can use anything) and I would dual him at level 15. This means he would have 100% magic resistance and wielding carsomyr.
That's why I don't have a paladin. I can't see any real advantages of a paladin over the wizardslayer/thief.

I think I will replace the berserker/cleric with a ranger/cleric, because they're not that much weaker fighters and I get druid spells.

I'm not sure yet about my kensai. On the one hand, I'd like to dual him to a thief, so he can wear armor, but right now, I'm lvl 9 and if a cleric casts stone skin on him, he has an AC of -7, which is pretty nice too. If I would dual him, he would miss out on cool fighter HLA's. But on the other hand, I would like to see the affect of a x5 backstab modifier, but I guess I can do that with the wizardslayer/thief as well.

O, and yeah, the idea of dualing my archer to a cleric was really stupid. I didn't realise that I wouldn't be able to use bows...

I've just read the thread about Dual vs. Multiclass and this Earl Grey guy has some really good points. I think the only downside to multiclassing is that you can't use kits. New idea:
Elf Sorcerer
Human Wizardslayer (15) / Thief with Carsomyr
Elf Cleric/Ranger dualwielding flails/hammers/maces
Elf Archer with longbows (Gesen is cool, but longbows are more powerfull and there are Quivers of arrows in ToB that will have unlimited arrows)
Half-orc (I'm powergaming) Kensai dualwielding longswords (and maybe bastard swords)

Elf Thief that I dump when I dualclass wizard slayer dualwielding short swords and scimitars
replaced by some sort of warrior (suggestions?) dualwielding axe of unyielding and something else.

More suggestions are welcome.

 

Just a few comments:

1. Glad I sold you on the ranger/cleric idea. It's one of my favorite characters

2.

- I assume you mean barkskin?

3. I realize you are powergaming, but your last warrior - dwarf berserker works from a powergaming and roleplaying perspective. Consider dualling scimitars in off-hand for Belm (extra attack); less sense from a roleplaying perspective, though.

 

@Splunge:
1. yeah, that one
2. When I said the thing about powergaming, I was referring to the guy that said I shouldn't pick half-orc for my kensai, and then he posted a link to a thread. I know half-orcs aren't generally accepted roleplaying characters, but they are the strongest fighters in BG2 (although the dwarves' saving throws are nice too).