Thoughts on Mage Armours

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Got the Idea whe I read Abdels post here

Random silly history
MAGE ARMORS
Mage armors were originally created by the renowned Bhaalspawn known as Abdel. When <CHARNAME> Slew him, the original armor was unfortunately broken, but the armor still held some energy.
The Pink Sorcerer who had followed the progress of <CHARNAME> closely came across this item as he travelled in <CHARNAME>'s footsteps.
The Pink Sorcerer tried to repair the armor, and succeeded at it to some degree. The vocalizing effect was still intact, but the flexibility decreasing counterspell Abdel had placed upon the armour couldn't be completely re-made.
This resulted in an armor that will lower the arcane powers of the wearer. This is shown as a -'x' to the intelligence of the caster, where 'x' is 1 point of intelligence taken.
All mage armours have an enchantment that will lower the weight, and strength requirement of the armor, so the weaker mages can wear the armors.

Originally Abdels idea was that instead of a -x to intelligence, spell casting of a certain lvl depending on the AC of the armor should be disabelled. As to now
I have only been able to get the lower lvl spells (up till 'round lvl 7 or so) to display as a negative effect in the spell slot modifier. Each time I try to do it with lvl 9 spells, it set the amount of spell casts to maximum instead of removing the memorized slots as it should...

Now any suggestions on ´the items?

 

Non-tampering suggestions:
-Perhaps a name prefix like "Mage's" to indicate the difference between these and regular suits of armor.
-Why is it that you don't mention the easiest ones to make? For example, Full Plate +5 would have no level-restriction (INT reduction) and would be very easy to make. Do you just not want an item that powerful, or what?

Tampering suggestions:
-Make them all robes (with the proper armor pics, of course) so that you can stay closer to the original idea of not changing AC with plusses. Would also negate the necessity of the Vocalize special.
-You could do a set INT to ensure the spell level thing, while making a "this INT or higher" requirement to put it on at all (to remove the exploit of raising INT for a low INT mage).

 

All will have that prefix. Just didn't seer the reason to type it at the examples above

My goal is to make a sort-of underrespresented itempack with loads of weapons that aren't overpowered, so yes. That would be too much.

The will be robes, but the names will be 'Mager Leather Armor (of Quickness)' FX.

Clever fel! That why I love you You always have a plain and easy solution I'll make a set INT modifier to set the INT so that lvl 'x' spells cannot be thrown.

 

Don't forget to take them off before you enter into stat-requiring dialogues or try to scribe new spells!

BTW:
Level 4 - INT 9
Level 5 - INT 10-11
Level 6 - INT 12-13
Level 7 - INT 14-15
Level 8 - INT 16-17

 

These items make an already too powerful class even more powerful.

 

All power and glory to the Pink Sorcerer!

All your base belong to him!

(BTW, the armor *is* pink, I hope...)

 

Nope... But the merchant Taluntain *is* pink (Or rather purple, but there's a funny dialog concerning that.

 

I don't know about you, but I think mages are overly-defended from physical combat already, with all their abjuration spells. These items just make it even more so. Fighters have a hard time getting through all those layers of stoneskin and mirror images, and now they are going to miss their hit rolls too.

Anyways... are you sure the intelligence penalty is enough? That only decreases the number of spells memorized, which means you just have to put on the armour after you've expended a few spells.

 

It'll also affect the maximum spell level you can cast (well, the maximum spell level a mage PC will be able to cast, anyway).

 

Intelligence affects number of spells you're able to scribe per level and your chance to succesfully scribe them in Baldur's Gate -- THAT'S IT!!!!!

You'll still be able to cast the highest level spell you can in SoA (I think it's 8th level spells), you'll still be able to cast the number of spells per level your class allows.

It's said ALL THE TIME on these boards: you can beat the game with any character/party. Why make it even easier on one of the most powerful multi or dual class combos in this game?

 

Klorox,

My idea was to give a mage some sort of protection. In most RPG outside of D&D realm a mage type character is allowed to use some form of armor or protection, but to a limited degree. However that is not the case with D&D and I thought some form of armor would give the mage class a little physical protection that they are always lacking.

The only protection items a mage can have in D&D are magical bracer of AC and robe. Both are expensive and are over powered items that can be picked up fairly early in BG2.

 

I agree completely with Klorox. This overpowers the most powerful class anyway.

Mages do have some degree of protection. It's called Magic. That's why they have spells like Stoneskin, Armor, Spirit Armor, Protection for Weapons, Protection from Magical Weapons.

These armors do not prohibit the casting of any level spells. They prohibit the scribing of a level of scroll. So if your character can cast 3 level 8 spells, when he puts on that armor, he still can cast 3 level 8 spells. He just can't scribe any scrolls (which he can do by taking off the armor).

Additionally, a base price of 30,000 for an AC 0 mage armor? You should be adding a 0 on to the price of each of those armors. 300,000 is more like it. For 30,000 your mage is going to have the AC of a very strong fighter. If you just want to have the most powerful character ever, go for it and use this (I have no problem with people cheating in their own game if they want to) but don't look for justitification in the balance of the items.

 

If you want a mage who wears armor, multi or dual class the mage from any other class and wear elven chainmail. Then again, the Bracers of AC 3 are available for sale in Chapter 1 of the game (although it'd take a lot of luck to get enough cash in chapter 1 to afford them... best to wait until chapter 2). These Bracers are as good as plate mail.

If your Mage isn't multi or dual classed, and they get into melee combat, then you're doing something wrong.

 

FULL PLATE MAIL of Quickness (30000Gp)
Special Abilities: Vocalize
-1 penalty to Intelligence
Lowers Casting Time by 2
Armor Class: 0
Weight: 30
Requires: 10 Strength
Usable By:
Mage (single- and dual)


this killed me from the inside ...
mages can't use armor ...
i'm talking for the common mage :} don't watch waht is written in the books or what our fancy is thinking :}
An ordinary mage in bg2 can't just armor ! If a mage uses an armor this mage will be overpowered (think what will happen if a mage use elven chain mail + every protection spell :] ) so i'm don't like this things :}
and :
Intelligence affects number of spells you're able to scribe per level and your chance to succesfully scribe them in Baldur's Gate -- THAT'S IT!!!!!

i will only remove the armor and write the spell ??? anything hard ? nope ...
and this is very stupid 'coz there are intellect increasing items in the game ... so this is very STUPID THING ! use the robe and be happy ;]
The other way to overpower a mage is through playing with fighter but this is another topic ...
A and btw there aren't any BEST charters in the game ! Everything is balanced ! And this armor should not cost 300k but a 1 million so to be unreachable for the commong players !

 

While its true that there are no "best" characters and that everyone can make it through solo (well, maybe except the Wizard Slayer or Beastmaster but they work well as a team) but Mages, in raw, unadulterated power trump everyone. Pit a high-level mage vs. a high level fighter and if that fighter gets in 1 hit that mage was poorly played.

And as I said, if they want to cheat, more power to them. Just don't expect people here to say its balanced.

 

As I said in the other thread, mage armor is lame and isn't even required with powerful magics.

Ever fight firkraag with a solo mage? Protection from magical weapons, and protection from fire are the only defensive spells you need, and he won't be able to scratch you. Resist fear is needed too, but that's pretty much a given for any character fighting a dragon. Mage armor is completely useless.

 

Good call, Taluntain. Now I can come out and admit that I am useless at playing wizards and my wizards always die horribly as soon as they are attacked because I can never remember which of the dozens of buffs are the right ones to use in each situation. I always look for non-spell ways to give my wizards some protection (like AC enhancing clothes)

I find Minsc to be far more overpowered than the likes of Imoen or Edwin, for the reasons noted above.

 

Right on, Tal! I too don't quite have the knack for the numerous exploits that soloing a mage requires in these games. They're meant to have a lower AC, and I think too many people forget that. Keep in mind, all you scoffers, that the wizard class was significantly weakened defensively by the change to the first-level Armor spell.

In real 2e, the duration is damage-based. (IOW, once you take a certain amount of damage with the same Armor spell on, the spell fails and you become vulnerable again.) Aside from that stipulation, the effect was permanent, meaning that you could just stick it in your spellbook and assume you cast it before starting your first adventure. You'd have a permanent 4-point armor reduction so long as you re-cast it when you got hurt too much, and that saved my mages (and Transmuters) from death on many occasions, despite the protection of a party (smarter enemies when there's a DM).

 

My reasons to make this item pack is:

1) Never modded anything before, so an item pack was a good place to start (with a belonging merchant, dialog and script, so I'd get hold on various aspects of moding).

2) Trying to make a collection of items gathered from some of my own ideas on items, and various ideas by people here at BoM.

3) Trying to make an item pack that weren't overpowered to the ridiculous.
Lookin' upon the original thought of the Mage armor posted by Abdel - Bhaals pawn:
- The price of AC is steep in terms of loosing high lvl spells. The better an AC the Armour can provide, the lower lvl spell access you got. I'm still trying to get the modified wizard spell slots to function properly on a negative lvl at higher lvl's, but as I've stated earlier, I'd had some problems with this.
- The general Mage armour will will not do much but give you AC and vocalize.
Yes, the quickness version WILL give you + to speed when casting spells, but fighters got improved haste, so mages got to have improved casting speeds.

As to UCLAP's comment on the price:

Look at the Robe of Vecna. Does it cost 1 million GP's? No. Is it ridiculously brilliant? Yes...

You may think what you want, when this item pack goes official you can chose amongst two choices:

a) Don't download it!

b) Don't buy the mage Armour if you do...

The pack will when it's once done contain many items, amongst other some even you have wished for.

By-the-by this was merely an outline, but you've all, except Fel, just stated whether you liked it or not. If you want to add something constructive, try to say what you may dislike, how you could do this or that to improve it in general...

@ Firag:
Mages can wair armors, though at the cost of %spell casting failure, which could easily be implemented on a mage armor too. Everyone can pick up an armor and put it on, but the weight of armors will hinter the spellcasting abilities, thus the probability of spellcasting failure and lower acces to spell levels.