Thief / Cleric thoughts.

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I have recently been playing A 1/2Ork Thief / Ceric and a Human Swashbukler(10lv) / Cleric in seperat games. I think they are a tough and useful Multi/Duel Cass option with good solo potential. What is your opinion? Ideas for Equipment.

[ August 20, 2006, 18:06: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

I suppose any class can be soloed, although I'm not too big on the idea with a cleric/thief. I think dual and multi-classed cleric thieves are more utility characters. The one thing I like about them is that both clerics and thieves are classes where you really only need one of each for your party. By having one character perform both roles, you kill two birds with one stone.

Acknowledging that I have never attempted a solo with cleric/thief of any kind, I imagine that the multi-class would be a heck of a lot more useful than the dual class. As far as equipment goes, I would recommend using both a helm and a shield, which you can do without any penalty to your theif skills. As for weaponry, you can use any cleric based weapon for standard combat, however you are going to be limited in your options if you intend to backstab. The only cleric weapons that are also thief weapons (and thus can be used to backstab) are the quarterstaff and the club. So your best option that you can get your hands on relatively early would be Blackblood (+3) from one of the merchants in Trademeet. +3 blunt weapons also can damage golems, so good news there too.

One thing that you won't have much trouble with at all in a solo game is undead. Assuming you are playing any non-evil alignment, you should level very quickly in a solo game, and should be turning/destroying undead with relative ease.

 

They booth seem to have strong melee ability. the ork due to str. & buffs and the human from swashbuckler bonuses and buffs.

 

They are good melee characters, especially if you have the 19 strength from the half-orc. However, you are limited in weapons for backstab as I said earlier. It's not a huge deal, as I usually carry one weapon for standard fighting and a seperate weapon for backstabbing. Blackblood is your best backstabbing options, but honestly, for most fights the Flail of the Ages is your better option. Later on in the game, you can even dual wield (especially with the Swashbuckler/Cleric) FotA with Crom Faeyr.

 

I love seeing my Swashbuckler/Cleric dual wield The Flail of the Ages and Gnasher or Ardula's Fall and watch his enemies slow to a crawl as he beats the life from them, what a guy! With the ork I got The Staff Of Rynn first, with his 19 str. he gets in some killer backstabs. He also has the Sling of Seeking, man he hurts 'em when he hits. The only problem I have is switchin armors and weapon setups.

 

I can't be bothered to switch around armor setups. Especially considering there are a whole mess of quality armors out there that are leather. Heck, if you have the item upgrade mod, there are leather armors that are upgradable that have AC within a point or two of magical full plate mail, and they also give you other resistances to boot. Aeger's Hide upgraded is AC 1 with boatloads of elemental resistances. In ToB, upgraded sylvan chain is AC -1 with fire resistance.

 

Cleric/thief is the optimal choice for the protagonist in a team party. There's no other proper thief in the game except neutral aligned Jan and as cleric you are always able to raise dead party members.
The disadvantage is that you don't get more than 1 attack/round.
Cleric spells are not as cheesy as mage spells, but soloing the game with a cleric/thief shouldn't be too hard.

With ToB the multiclass would be far superior, but with only SoA I'd say the dualclass is easier.
The HO can set better traps and backstab, while the human has far better fighting skills, saving throws and clerical abilities like summoning skeleton warriors.

As for equipment:
I'd use the club+3 you can buy in Trademeet combined with shield and a sling for missile.
I'd also buy the quarterstaff +4 for monsters immune to +3 weapons.
I don't know if swashbucklers can specialize in weapons thiefs can't use, if yes I recommend dualwielding FoA with IMoD or CF in the off-hand, if not I'd use the club+3 as main hand weapon.
It doesn't hurt carrying a shield along for fights where you need good AC or a sling for hit and run tactics.

Shadow dragon armor is probably the best armor for thieves, bracers AC3 should help until you are able to get it. Carrying around a plate for melee use can also help.

 

The best weapon for backstabbing in SoA is the Staff of Striking. With a 1d6+10 base damage (plus maybe a +1 for two-handed proficiency) your cleric/thief can do some awesome damage. Since it is a charged weapon, you'll need to use it sparingly & recharge with the sell/steal trick in between adventures, so carry the Staff of Rhynn for regular use.

One problem with soloing a C/T is those pesky trolls. The Flail of Ages or Blackblood is an obvious answer, but you have to go through a whole lot of trolls before you can get either one, and spellcasting a fire spell can be disrupted. I like a fully charged Wand of the Heavens for this. If I don't have one, then I do Trademeet first, stealth past all the trolls, then come back for them after I get a weapon that can kill them.

The Sling of Seeking is nice, but a little known fact is that you get your STR bonuses with any sling using a magic bullet, so I would rather use the Sling of Everard +5 in conjunction with a +1 or +2 bullet for best damage. Note that this effectively downgrades the sling to a +2 weapon, so you'll have to take the bullets out when using it against those iron and adamantite golems.

If you were using ToB and the Item Upgrade mod there would be lots of other items I could recommend. There are a couple of cheesy backstabbing tricks I could tell you about, including how to backstab in plate mail. Just let me know.

 

The multiclass cleric/thief is extremely powerful. Even more powerful with ToB.

The staff of Rynn is pretty much all the offensive power you need. Before that, the staff spear or staff mace is quite good. The staff mace allows for a shield (as do any club) while backstabbing. The Sling of Everard is excellent for the solo (no ammo). Get boots of speed as soon as you can take on the planar prison (I waited until I could cast 7th level spells).

Trolls presented a little problem at first but that is countered by the flame blade (I could kill two trolls with one flame blade). Once I got the FoA and/or Blackblood the trolls became easy. Spirit Trolls are a different issue -- those are tough with the poor THAC0 of the C/T. The biggest problems I've run into thus far were the rune assassins in the bridge district (I ran away). Even dragons have been no problem.

You would not believe how easy the Temple ruins are with the Cleric/Thief. I didn't have any problems with the three liches I faced. It's a gold mine for XP as you just wander around with the turn undead on (but not around the good ghosts). Completing chapter three was easy between backstabs and various anti-undead devine magic.

For other equipment: Helmet of Balduran, gauntlets which improve fighting ability, belt of inertial barrier, early on the skin of the ghoul is very effective armor (then either Shadow Dragon armor or the Night's Gift). I also tend to collect (and buy) magic rings. Ring of Air Control, Mercykiller Ring (any that help you thieving skills), Invisibility, Regeneration (I don't memorize healing spells), ....

Make sure you have a gem bag, and scroll case. Oh yes ... shields: Reflection Shield is a must (Firkraag's orcs killed themselves), Shield of Balduran and Shield of Harmony are strongly recommended.

 

What is the Cleric fixation?

I have never seen the point of taking a protagonist who is a Cleric. Most Clerical spells are either poor, only for party support OR too damn slow (Bolt of Glory for example). mages just get much better spells.

However if Soloing I guess I can see the advantage of high level Turning ability.

 

I think it's a pretty cool solo. It's a very versatile character, and not really thought of as a power character.

You'd have to think about a lot of tactics, which would be a lot of fun.

IMHO, a Thief/Mage would provide a bit more fun, though, for a solo character, and would be easier.

It all depends on what you're looking for, really.

 

A cleric/thief character is very powerful... they can pray to their gods for blessings, go picklocks or pickpockets and do some backstabbing, and pray for forgiveness.

...I love this game.

 

A cleric/thief has the advantage of being able to use armor while casting spells. And what was the name of that club with splinters? IIRC, it's nearly as good as having a poisoned weapon.

And who needs forgiveness when your deity is Mask, the god of thieves?

 

Well, those slow party support spells are really useful. If nothing else you need a character who is able to cast some healing spells. That having been said, I agree that you don't need loads and loads of cleric spells. One cleric per party is useful though.

 

Speed of casting can change greatly when ToB is installed. I would not play the C/T solo without ToB.

 

I accept that Aldeth of course. They do have useful spells. I just find them sloooooww!

By the time chummy has cast Bolt of Glory your party could be breath weaponed or overun. An mage can get Amulet of Power and Robe of Vecna within an hour of play and therefore casts very quickly, meaning you effect the foe before he can get you. By the time any big boss get round to being hit by Bolt of Glory or whatever he will have buffed right up.

Also after you start getting the better cure potions in TOB (or Watchers Keep) then I find that you hardly ever use cures except in the BIG battles.

Of course you generally have regens after about 12th level anyway.

The only pro-Cleric thing you can say is armour.

 

A mage can get the Amulet of Power and Robe of Vecna within an hour of play? Are you serious? Do tell how such feat is accomplished.

 

If he has unfinished business installed, you can easily get to chapter 3 within an hour. One of the new quests is the spider lady in the catacombs. Instead of just attacking you as soon as you enter, now she asks you to retrieve a sword from the sewers for her. She gives you a wand that casts web as your reward (called a web sack). The web sack can be sold for 45,000 gp, which is way more than its actual usefulness. With 45,000 gp that early in the game, you have plenty to buy a couple of quality pieces of equipment (Robe of Vecna) and still have enough to pay off the fee for Spellhold.

 

@nior - Firstly I tend to play with 1, 2 or 4 people.
Always 1 or 2 until I go to Spellhold.

Money is easy enough.

Firstly I have Dungeon-be-gone installed so that helps a lot) - and stops me getting bored.

If you only have a few people then lots of stuff is useless to you so sell it. As you go on you can make bucketloads of money so come and rebuy (or pick pocket) if need be.

Then the two places I 'do' outside of a few small 'intown' adventures are Nalia's Troll Pad and Watchers Keep (levels 1 and 2 are quite do-able) .

Both will make you at least 30k each plus.
Add in a bit of pick pocketing (sell stuff at blackmarketeers) and make sure you shop with Ring of Human Influence (you get in first adventure) and Nymph Cloak (from secondary thieves guild) and away you go.

Very very doable in one hour of play because you are only a small group and I tend to not get 'chatterbox' NPC's (you know who you are Kelsey ) so you can get a lot done inside of an hour.

So Amulet of Power is achievable within about 10-15 minutes, as I get 15k to my purse (piece of cake) then I have to raise (I think) 25k. After Nalia's pad and some of WK that is easily done.

I always prioritise building the mage first.

That is how "such a feat" is achieved. Not too difficult, does take some thougt and planning but is certainly very achievable.

 

I chose to play the cleric/thief because I really wasn't proficient with either.

While playing Planescape: Torment I had a lot of fun with Annah -- that was the first time I had actually used a thief to their maximum extent. As I've mentioned before, Annah killed the fiend from Moridor's box single-handedly -- this was no small feat as the fiend was a Glabrazu with AC-10, 3 att/rnd with 4-40 damage per att, and 600 hp's. It was worth a whopping 500,000 xp's. After that, I thought it would be fun to play a thief.

I chose to multiclass with a cleric because I have always only used clerics as portable hospitals and wanted to improve my offensive skills with them. Certainly a mage/thief may be easier, but I already know how to use a mage. Soloing a cleric/thief (which was my first solo) forced me to use both classes efficiently. Early in the game the thieving skills were the most powerful and I relied on those heavily. Later in the game, the power of the cleric really shined in offense.

As I said in an earlier post, I wouldn't recommend playing this class without ToB installed (but then, any solo would be very limited without ToB).