The Few Lame (or merely overlooked) Kits

Remove all ads!

Does anyone play them? There are a few kits in the game I noticed that no one seems to talk about:

Beast Master
Wizard Slayer (non-improved version)
Vanilla or kit single class Cleric
Paladin (vanilla)
Druid (vanilla)
Bard (vanilla)
Totemic Druid
Avenger
Jester
Diviner
Abjurer
Transmuter
Enchanter (I've seen1 person recently)

And WAY too few people seem to like the Barbarian, which is just downright weird to me (I'll explain why Barbarians kick boo-tay if anyone wants to hear it).

Has anyone used these classes, and if so how did you fare with them? Or, have you used these classes to see if you could do well despite their limitations?

[ May 22, 2003, 22:08: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

I like Totemic druids, because they are better than other druids (well, not better than shapeshifters). Their spiritual animals are quite strong and losing shapeshifting means nothing (just how often do you use shapeshifting? )

But I agree that many kits, like Avenger, Wizard Slayer and Beastmaster, are almost completely useless.

 

I can't really speak for the beastmaster, but I like the Avenger because of the added mage spells, which are mostly good ones. The extra shapes are cool because they all have unique abilities and immunities (like the Fire Salamander's fire resistance and Fireball tossing). Even if you don't use them that often, they are nice to have.

The Wizard Slayer annoyed me because he couldn't drink potions or use any other magic trinkets (except weapons and armor), so I didn't really give him a chance. And the cumulative spell failure thing is lame, because if a fighter hits a mage enough times to bring down his casting by 50%, he should've killed the mage by then anyway! This could work great for a ranged fighter, and may make for a very interesting thief dual-class option, don't you think?

 

I have to agree that vanilla anything is kind of lame. But I like all Rangers -- especially in the lower levels, the Beastmaster is very useful, as is the Totemic Druid, though as the game progresses their abilities become less useful.

I've never tried a Jester, but apparently his song is fun -- I'd like to try him singing along with a regular bard -- that'd be 2 people out just singing, but it would rock the world of the opposition!

Funny you mentioned Wizard Slayer, I just mentioned 5 min ago elsewhere that I wanted to give him a try -- why does he suck? Seems cool enough to me!

Some of those Specialist mages do seem a little dry -- in PnP a Transmuter can be really cool, but try playing a mage without those vital abjuration spells in BG2 and see what happens!

I liked playing with a Priest of Lathander or Helm -- nice special abilities, fun fun fun! Trouble with a high level Priest of Lathander is that once he's that high, you want to have him turning, not casting his cool anti-undead spells. It's kind of a catch 22.

I hate Avengers -- -2 to Str and Con? Forget it -- no extra forms or spells can compensate for that, especially the Con.

I'll have to try a Barbarian one of these days, though if I want speed I usually choose a Monk, and if I want berserking, I'll get Korgan (or Minsc, for that matter). I don't let people get behind me, so backstab isn't a problem. What other bonus is there? Enlighten me from your burrow!

 

Commencing burrow-bourn enlightenment. (you're such a goofball, man That's why we get along so well.) And it's not a burrow, it's a domain of fear, thank you very much.

Those 2 points off your druid aren't really that big of deal IMO. When I make a druid, I focus those points on Dex and Wis long before Str and Con. I wouldn't have a druid in melee ever really anyway, so I don't focus those stats. Besides, 16 in Str and Con are still pretty good, and there are belts in the game that make up for both if you really need them maxed.

Here's why I love Barbarians, as opposed to Berserkers. First off, their rage is much better.

Berserker:
May use Enrage ability once per day per 4 levels. While enraged: +2 to hit, +2 damage, -2 AC. The berserker at this time is immune to charm, hold, fear, maze, imprisonment, stun and sleep. He also gains 15 hit points while enraged. These hit points are temporary, and are taken away at the end of his berserk spree, possibly killing the berserker.

Barbarian:
* Can Rage once per day for every 4 levels (starts at 1st level with one use). Rage gives them +4 to constitution and strength for 5 rounds. Gives a -2 armor class penalty and +2 to saves vs. magic (for 5 rounds). Rage also gives immunity to all charm, hold, fear, maze, confusion and level-drain spells.

+2 more to both STR and CON is quite a biggy, plus the Berserker misses out on lever drain immunity during the rage. No temporary hitpoints to kill you if you aren't paying attention when your rage ends, and what's 15 extra hitpoints to a warrior anyway?

That brings me to my next point - or rather, "points" (pun intended). Barbarians gain more HP than anyone in the game (D12). So who needs a measly HP boost from a rage when you have a ton of HP to begin with?

Next point: they move almost as fast as a high-level monk, which rules. It's like having a character wearing the boots of speed - for free. Give dem' booties to your slowpoke mages.

Next point: At 11th level, the barbarian gains 10% resistance to slashing, piercing, crushing and missile damage. He gains +5% to this every 4 levels thereafter. Eventually this turns out to help a lot I think. By level 19, that's 20% off all physical damage. Boo-yah.

Next point: Can't be backstabbed. No one can touch this one without the Gargoyle Boots. I know, wrong forum to bring that one up, but it just shows how valuable that is in SoA.

Only 1 small drawback: No plate mail. But this isn't a big deal, because the best plate mail in the game (Full Plate +2, AC -2) is only 2AC points better than the best chainmail in the game (Crimson Chain, AC 0). Those 2 points are easily made up by other items. As does his damage resistance.

Plus, Barbarians can Specialize in missile weapons, where Berserkers cannot. They can't achieve Grand Mastery in anything, but that's just a waste of proficiency points, anyway.

I'm tellin' you people- Barby is dah mad killah!!

 

I'll have to try that one, then. You can explain another one to me, though -- why does everyone say that Grand Mastery is useless? I happen to like it . . . explain please!

 

The wizard-slayer is great, but not as great as in ToB.

Advantages:
10% Culmulative spell failure
1% Magic resistance/level

Use:
10% Culmulative spell failure:
This applies to all spellcasters. Wizards, sorcerers, bards, druids, paladins, rangers and clerics. It even makes works against the barbarian and the beserkers abilities to enrage and all the other special abilities that can only be accessed by the special menu bar or the spellcasting bar. It also works even though the enemy have a improved mantle and you have a measly long sword +2. Liches, dragons, vampires. All monsters fall under the curse of the wizard-slayers culmulative spell failure.

1% Magic resistance/level:
This is good, even though that it gets even better in ToB but when you are on level 19 you have 19% magic resistance which can be really helpfull when it applyes to the character.

Disadvantes:
May not use any magic items except for weapons and armor.

Use:
May not use any magic items except for weapons and armor.
So? You really don't need the ring of Gaxx or the bracers of archery. Just equip your character with these things. This is if you are ready to give almost all the powerfull items to yourself.

Helm: Helm of Balduran
Armor: Ethier do Viconia's romance and take the last enemies armor or use the plate of Balduran.
Shield: None or the shield of Balduran.
Weapons: Here is many different things. Ethier Blackrazor or Lilacor with the Elven Court bow or the mana bow or Blackrazor or Crom Feyr with the shield of Balduran.
Boots: Actually, the wizard-slayer CAN use the boots of speed. They isn't counted as magical.

Also, remember, he have all the goodies a vanilla fighter have except item limination. Grand mastery, all armors, heaps of HP, low THAC0 and things like that.


Conclusion: A very good fighter that is great against all enemies in the game.
Mark: 9/10 - Why? It isn't a perfect kit after all.

[ June 30, 2003, 15:01: Message edited by: Velve Zauviir ]

 

er, DMC, I hate to nitpick, but unless you have a funky mod installed, multiclassed characters cannot go past 2 points worth of specialization. Just a little nitpick.

 

I knew tht fighters dualled could get GM -- learned that from Anomen. I'll have to get the mods you were talking about so Keldorn can have GM in two handed swords -- GM+Carsomyr=death to pretty much anyone who is stupid enough to come close.

 

Vanilla clerics are actually pretty powerful if you know how to play them. They get a great number of summoning spells and have finger of death. My first time through the game was with a pure cleric Priest of Lathander. Multi-classed clerics lose a lot of the pure spells.

Vanilla paladins and bards suck simply because their kits carry the same advantages + a few extra.

Diviners and Adjurer mages lose access to some of the best spells in the game (almost all the good ones are conjuration or alteration). Same with transmuters, you don't get any of the cool protection spells.

 

A very strong dual class character is made when you import your BG1 druid and select the Avenger kit in BG2 (you don't lose the attribute points like that). Dual class him to a fighter once you get some of the great druid spells like iron skins, etc. I think level 12 might be high enough to do the job.

You'll get less HP than if you went fighter through the early levels, but thats not such a big deal and once you reactivate the druid class abilities, very strong this is even better if you plan on taking it into ToB when you get the hla.

 

I've taken a Priest of Talos through most of Act 2 solo before picking up Viconia and completing TOB -- just the two of us (sing with me here).

He was actually one of the most enjoyable characters I've had. With the various buffs and armor you actually do become pretty formidable in melee (it is slow going since without haste you can only have 1 attack per round as a cleric; but there are ways to haste yourself). Combine with the summoning spells and there really isn't anything you can't handle with a little forethought.

Nice thing about the Priest of Talos is his Storm Shield combined with his lightning bolt. Now, I suspect this is a bug, but my priest of Talos did not seem to have capped lightning bolt damage so I was eventually able to do 20d(6?) damage per hit with my bolt which is a whole lotta damage. Combine it with storm shield and the helm of defense and your lightning bolt actually heals you so where normally lightning bolt, a party, and tight quarters don't mix now you can love the lightning bolt richocets. Since I only had Viconia as my other character, the various potions helped her cope with the electrical damage until I got the cloak that reflects electrical attacks for her.

A fun class, I would recommend it. Plus you're evil which can be fun.

 

I played a single class cleric kit before on my earlier runs through the game. They can get powerful pretty quickly because clerics (and thieves) level up the fastest. Which means you get access to the high-level offensive spells (Level 5 and up spells) faster, and of course Animate Dead with Skeletal Warriors.

I also played a pure paladin before when I created all 6 NPCs to re-create the feeling of the older Forgotten Realms games. He wasn't very special at all.

Oh, and why is the pure class referred to as "Vanilla"?

 

Because the basic, non-special flavor of anything is often vanilla. Like when you think of the most basic ice cream, the one flavor the others seem to mix with or are based on, is vanilla. Get it? If a paladin were vanilla, then the Inquisitor, Chavalier and Undead Hunter would be Cookies n Cream, Chocolate Chip and Caramel Praline (all based on vanilla, but variations). Mmmmmmm. *hungry now*

I'd still like to know if/why anyone prefers the Berserker over the Barbarian for a single-class tank.

 

I don't know about "prefers" but I sure like being able to wear the heavier plate armors (though your discussion of the damage resistances for Barbarians was well founded)

I can't see anyone playing a vanilla Bard instead of a Skald. Who uses their bard as a pickpocketer, anyhow? I mean, if you've got a thief, I'd use the thief, and not many people play without a pilferer.

I couldn't play a Blade because his song sucks. The song is the important thing for a bard, IMHO.

 

Actually, the Beserker's rage does give him immunity to level-drain. It shouldn't, but it does.

 

Isn't there a patch that fixes this?

 

uhm why does one hate a druid class because of -2 con ?! this is no fighter and thus the bonus for 17 or 18 con is quite tiny ...
druid has max hp bonus at 16 con so no need to cry. 16 str : well there are boost spells or even items for this. to me this is the best druid as i don't like the shapeshifter.