Spellchuckers: When does their power "top out"?

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Just wondering. I'm thinking about my proposed party, and instead of certain casters going very high as casters only, I'm thinking about mixing in other levels just to give a more sturdy overall character. For instance, if you multiclass in a level of Monk, Cleric, or Bard, you're really helping your saving throws out a lot. Monk adds Evasion, which is great if you don't wear armor, Bard allows you to sing if you can't get into combat right away, and adding a level of Fighter or Ranger can really help out a character to become a much better combatant. A level of Barbarian adds a ton of HP and a Rage, which is nice too.

So, when do Clerics "top out"? What about Wizards? And Sorcerers?

TIA

 

At about lvl 20 tou've gained most high-lvl spells, but usually the added damage/longer lasting buffs/stronger summons is way better than some odd bonuses to saving throws.
A cleric wouldn't loose too much if multiclassed at lvl 20 but a sorc/wiz would (shades and DBFB looses much power).

Edit: 20 or 24 lvls of cleric would be useful since they gain their 4th and 5th lvl 8 spell there.

 

My personal fav is the Paladin/Sorcerer (two levels of pally to start off then all out sorcerer, after that you might want to add a few levels of monk or something). Massive saving throws due to the paladin's Divine Grace... or whatever it's called that adds your charisma modifier to saving throws.

As to when casters top out... I'd say when they have about 3 spell slots in their highest level spell.

 

Clerics seem to top out at level 20. And I suppose that the same would be true of druids as well, given that clerics and druids use the same table. I've usually started taking fighter levels once my clerics reach level 20.

As for sorc's and wizzies, I've usually just kept taking sorc/wizzy levels right to the end simply to keep increasing the number of damage dice on their unlimited attack spells, like skull trap, delayed fireball, etc.

 

Mind you, if you go the DUHM route for clerics, going all the way to level 30 can be beneficial (+10 STR, DEX and CON, 4 more compared to level 20) - only Tensor's Transformation with items can get those kind of bonuses (no CON, and you need some lucky rolls).

Bards max out in two ways:
a) Level 11 if you are just interested in the songs
b) At least level 26 for 8th level spells

Druids are similar:
a) Level 12 for Barkskin (high AC powergaming!)
b) Level 20, as already stated by others
c) Level 22 for the Air Elemental (if you're into shapeshifting)

As for summons, it seems that only the Illusory "Shadow" type summons get better after level 17 (up to level 27).

For other types of spells, you really have to read the manual for the ones without a damage cap (e.g. DBFB can do 30D8) and those that last 1 round/level. You can then decide if it important enough for you to take more caster levels to get more power/duration out of these spells.

 

You do need luck to tie or beat L30 DUHM bonuses with Tenser, but I wouldn't really call it requiring lucky rolls. The average bonus to str and dex from Tenser is 5. Dwarven Ogre adds 6 str, and Chimera Slippers adds 5 dex. That's +11 str and +10 dex on average. Of course, Dwarven Ogre requires levels in one of the fighting classes (I think fighter or barbarian), but you can use Champion's Strength instead (minimum +5 str). Tenser doesn't add con, but it adds 1d6 hp/level and 5 fortitude saves. Add Aura of Vitality on top of that, and you get +5.5 average hp/level and +7 fortitude saves, more than that of DUHM's con bonus, unless con has some other effect besides hp and fortitude save.

Clerics get an extra cast of L6 spell at L21 (Heal or Divine Shell). You are also getting an extra reflex save and 1 more bonus from DUHM. Unfortunately, no extra BAB or fortitude and will save for that extra level. Your call as to whether you want to go for L21 or stop at L20, assuming you already ruled out L24 (L8 spell for Mass Heal, Holy Aura, Symbol of Hopelessness, or Firestorm) or some other level.

Similarly, L21 is a decent place to stop wizard progression. You get your 7th mirror image at L21 (maxes at 8 at L24). You are missing out on DBFB, Skull Trap, and Horrid Wilting damage, spell duration, and shadow conjuration series monsters, but you get some multiclass options. Quite nice to have if you use a sorcerer.

[ January 15, 2007, 19:49: Message edited by: Mokona=Modoki ]