Sorcerer or Paladin 1/Sorcerer X?

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Would a properly played Sorcerer ever make enough saving throws in a game to warrant the need for the Divine Grace ability, or would I be better off keeping my main spellcaster single classed?

Also, if I'm not going to multiclass this character, and don't want an ECL penalty (that's kinda my goal: making my Cleric and Sorcerer single-classed without an ECL penalty for the fastest advancement possible), would Gold Dwarf be a good racial pick? Dwarves get so many great bonuses (boni?) for a no-ECL race.

 

I would suggest Human Paladin 2/Sorcerer X with maybe a lvl or 3 of maybe fighter or Cleric for some healing! Human because your favored class is the highest class so as long as there is only 1 lvl between Paladin and whatever else there wont be any xp penalty

[ November 15, 2005, 07:27: Message edited by: Darkstrike ]

 

If my goal is to have the best spellcaster possible, why add Fighter, Cleric, and additional Paladin levels on to of the one level I'm hesitant to have.

I'm not into the immunity to fear because I have my Cleric memorize "remove fear" and wear the item from the prologue that renders her immune to fear effects. All I want Paladin for is Divine Grace. The bow proficiency is a bonus, IMHO.

 

Unless your always casting Remove fear by knowing when fear will occur and wearing an item through the game it would be worth that one small level! Well thats what I personally think!

 

So ... Drow is out of the question?
Going from Sorcerer[29] to Sorcerer[30] does not give you much gain. So taking a Paladin[1] level should not be a problem.
If not Drow, then take Aasimar. 20Char from the begining of the game is useful.

Do Dwarves get a penalty to Char? If yes then their racial bonuses (not boni) are not worth it. At any rate saves should not really be that much of a problem since he should be way at the rear of the party.

 

Gold dwarves dont get the penalty to char they get it to dex instead unlike the other dwarf races its their only differnce to a normal dwarf i think

 

That's right Goon66, and I was thinking of Gold Dwarf.

Shrikant, I'm going to use a Drow for my Paladin/Fighter, and might even start off as a Cleric if I can find some cool Lawful Good granted powers. I am considering making my backup Rogue 2/Wizard a Drow as well, since I'm not overly concerened with levels when dealing with my backup spellcaster. It's the primaries I want at maximum levels (I think I'll take a Sorcerer - Human or Gold Dwarf, a Wood Elf Druid, and a Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus).

As a matter of fact, for arguments sake, the party would be:

Drow Fighter X/Paladin Y (possibly 1 level of Cleric if I can get a good LG granted power)
Duergar Fighter 4/Barbarian X
Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus
Wood Elf Druid
Human Sorcerer (possibly one level of either Bard for the item uses or Paladin for Divine Grace)
Drow Rogue 2/Wizard X (I could add one level of Bard to this build for the items instead of the Sorcerer).

 

Gold dwarf isnt worth it. You need all the feats you can get as a sorc and also the extra skill point means that if your not using her for speaking skills you can min int and still get both concentration and spellcraft(for elemental feats) also -2 dex sucks though +2 con pretty good.

I think aasimar is the best option if your going to dual class to paladin AND use her for talking skills. Or drow if your not multiclassing and using her for speaking or even if your not the special abilities(magic resistance) are more then better then the ability to min int. However if your DEFINATELY against ECL even the tiny ECL for aasimar (which isnt that bad and if you level squat and taking into account how you get xp for longer since your party level is lower from the ECL its not that big at all barely noticeable)then human is still noticeably better IMHO.

 

I have decided not to go with any paladin levels, so I'm proposing a gold dwarf or human.

I don't know if I want that extra feat and few skills or if I want +2 on every magic-related saving throw (that dwarf ability really is incredible!). I'm avoiding any multiclassing at all now, and don't want ECL penalties either.

 

Well i thought that would be the ability you wanted from a dwarf but still i think human has more to offer. Feats related to magic are pretty useful and theres a lot of them so a sorc especially needs all the feats he can get so i think an extra feat more then overweighs the other abilities of the dwarves aswell as the ability modifier as well as the fact you CAN if you change your mind multiclass very late in the game once spell progression is slowed down a lot. Now to verse the +2 saving throws youve only got the fact you can min INT and give her 9 more points elsewhere which could give you higher saves if put in the right place. However if you are using this character for speaking and thus need more then 2 skills per level choose gold dwarf i guess.

 

Iirc thats just +2 to save v/s enchantment that gold dwarves get, not +2 v/s all magics.

The +1ECL of Aasimar is easily over-compensated for by the 4 extra stat points. That also leaves open the option to take one point of Paladin if ever you wish to. Also, if you take Paladin, you get +5 for all saves at 20Char.

 

You think so, Shrikant? I think the extra feat and extra skill points from the Human and faster levelling outweighs the +2 CHA of the Aasimar. Besides, if I play Human, I can always add a level of Paladin, just as if I were Aasimar.

BTW, the Gold Dwarves get "+2 Saves ve. Spells and Spell-like Effects."

 

Well Human is great for practically any charecter. For me it's generally a toss-up between Human, Aasimar or Drow for my Sorcerer.
If you are going to only play the Normal game, then the rest of my post in moot. Gold Dwarves can take fighter levels without penalty. Aasimars can take paladin and Humans can take any class.
Taking fighter levels does not give as much of an advantage to the sorc as a paladin saves might.

If you make your sorc Human that would ge great as well. I am just saying you might have more useful options with an Aasimar or Human.

But at any rate, saves should not be a big deal for a sorcerer in a Normal game. So take which ever race you feel comfortable with.

As far as GD saves are concerned, I'll have to check my files then. Sorry if I have misled you.

 

Maybe your files will come up with something more accurtate. I got my information not from experience, but from the text from the character creation screen (is that faulty?).

 

Its elves that get bonus saves vs enchantment isnt it?

Btw i agree its better to be a human sorc with paladin levels then a gold dwarf sorc without in the saving throw deptartment.

As to human vs aasimar if you want ONLY 2 skills then human is better as you can then min int but if your using her for 3 or more skills(talking skills) then aasimar is much superior as the bonus skill points arent as useful seeinf as its only equivalent to 2 extra skill points which is granted by the +2 wis(this allows you to have 2 less points in int and still have 10 wisdom). And then IMO starting with 20 char is worth MUCH more then a feat so thats accounted for and since there is NO other class worth multiclassing a sorc with theres no need for a favoured class other then paladin.

That might make no sense but heres my basic point choose human if your not using your sorcerer as your speaker choose aasimar if you are.(or drow they rule and since you cant multiclass these guys to paladin they'll have the same sorc level as your aasimar paladin1/sorcx)

 

The best races for sorcerers are as you might have heard from the others: Aasimar, Drow and Human, but all the races without penalty to cha makes almost as good sorcerers. Even the races with -2 in cha might make good sorcs but takes more job.
In my gnome-only-party I used a rock gnome sorcerer that wasn't notably worse than my usual powergamed sorcs (the rest of the crew were deep gnomes but they make terrible sorcs.)
Go with the dwarf! Not because the +2 to saves makes much of a difference but because the other races bonuses won't make much of a difference for a class that almost only depends on his selection of spells. Choose the right spells for your play-style at every lvl-up and fill out the rest of the spellpicks with the ones that seems good in HOF-mode (if you'll decide to play that,) and you'll do fine!

 

Only add the paladin level if you want the saving throw bonus. As a defensive measure I think it's a good thing, but you'll always be one level lower in spellcasting. I think spellcasting ability outweighs the saving throw bonus when you're not soloing.

Solo -- take the paladin level.
Party -- don't.

 

One thing you oculd do is take the paladin level near the end, when extra sorc levels don't do much (the difference between 27 and 28 is very little), when you won't have an XP penalty for long, and when the divine grace bonus can easily be +10 to all saves.

 

I think my goal will be to add the Paladin level (or two) after beating the game once and starting over in HoF mode. I have a feeling I'll be needing it then!

 

human is the way to go, imo. you want to get 10 in spellcraft and then max your concentration. if you dont go human, its really hard to have a decent concentration after the 10 spellcraft.